SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives. Women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason. I am your host, Christy Walker. I'm a wife, mom, and a joy-filled Catholic. And I am the Catholic sobriety coach. And I'm so glad you're here. Most of us could name our vices in about five seconds, but what we can't name clearly is those things that we've quietly built our days around, like the glass of wine while we're making dinner that turns into two or three or more. Maybe it's the scrolling before bed or the snack that we have to take the edge off. And also the productivity that makes us feel worthy of something. Now, none of those things look like idols from the outside. They look like rest, entertainment, um, maybe a time of connection. They just look like normal life. But here's what I've seen over and over in my own life and with the women that I coach. When something becomes a non-negotiable, it starts competing with God for that same space in our heart. And we wonder why our prayer falls flat, why we can't hear the Lord like we used to, and why we keep sensing that there's something more to Christian life than what we're living. Today I'm thrilled to be welcoming back my friend Kylie Hine. She's a Catholic coach and spiritual director, and we are going to talk about disordered attachments, what they are, why the ordinary ones are often the most powerful, and how they can crowd out God's voice, install our call to holiness. So if you've ever suspected that your evening wine isn't really about the wine, you're right, and this conversation is for you. Kylie Hine is a Catholic coach, spiritual director, and host of the Persistence in Prayer podcast. She helps overwhelmed Catholic moms remove what's keeping them from experiencing the peace of God's presence. Through Christ-centered mindset coaching, Kylie teaches women to quiet the mental noise, recognize God's voice with greater clarity, and let go of perfectionism. And also to make decisions that are rooted in faith instead of fear. You can learn more about Kylie and the work she does at Kylie Hine, KylieMhine.com. And I'll have that link down in the show notes. So welcome back, Kylie. I'm so excited to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

I'm excited too. I'm so glad that we were able to reconnect. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

It has. I know. When before I pushed record, we were, I was looking because I was like, when when did I have you on here? And it's all the way back in episode 57. And that one was on temperament. So if you haven't heard that podcast episode, go back and listen to it. But I'm so glad to have you here today. So I guess what I want to first start with is what has God been doing in your life since we talked last?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Oh my goodness. It's been a full couple of years. I think professionally I have completed my spiritual direction certification, which was just such a transformative experience. I mean, anytime we go through that type of education, it's not just what we're learning to help other people. It's God's use using all of that to pour into us and help us connect more deeply with our own identity. So that was really powerful. I've done some more training on parts work. My coaching has just transformed. I've done some more study on leading people through the 19th annotation of the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius. So I'm sure his name is going to come up in this interview today. And then just with kids, I've got a fifth grader and a second grader this year. So it's a big year. We've got confirmation and first communion, which is really exciting. And then uh what else is new in my life right now? We just had a mama cow who had twin babies, so that's fun. My kid named them Tater and Tot.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

It was so cute.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

And we're just enjoying life. So it's a busy season, it's very full, but it is very beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Oh, that's fantastic. Well, I'm just thrilled to have you here and love catching up. And actually, I when we talked last, you were new to coaching, you went through the spiritual direction process, which is that's really intense. Like there's a lot of studying and learning involved in that. How did you feel God calling you to that? Or what what kind of came up for you that led you to that?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah. So for 13 years, I was a middle school and high school math teacher. And way back in my early years of teaching, I was at a very large Catholic school and I kept getting asked to help on these retreats. I kept saying no. And the Lord was just super persistent. I actually somehow ended up leading a girl's group called Handmaids of the Lord. I ended up helping out on these retreats. And on one of these retreats, I had a friend and he was like, Hey, I really think you should go check out this ministry program. So I had zero background in theology. I for sure thought I would not get accepted to this program, but I ended up getting accepted. They asked me if I could be there like two weeks later on campus. I got a master's of arts in ministry. I had no idea what I was gonna do with it. I was still teaching math. It's like, okay, I switched schools. I was now at a public school, I got married, had a baby. But in the background of all of this, I remember going, I had to go on an eight-day silent retreat in order to get my degree. That was one of the requirements. And on this retreat, it came out in the spiritual direction that I was not gonna teach forever. And the spiritual director was like, Did you know you're gonna say that? I was like, no idea, no idea that I'm supposed to stop teaching. So fast forward seven years later-ish, I'm just feeling very scattered, um, having all kinds of health issues. And I just started praying and praying, and I still felt this draw towards spiritual direction, which I was introduced to through my ministry program because when I started that program, you had to have a spiritual director. I didn't know what that was at the time at 24. I do now. So through all of that, I started looking for spiritual direction programs. None of them would fit with my work schedule because I was teaching full-time and I was a head volleyball coach. So it was very, very time consuming. And I found Metanoi Catholic, so I got certified. But as I was doing that, I was still felt very drawn to spiritual direction. And I went to adoration one night and there was a little prayer card, and it was for the Avala Institute, and it was like a free coupon to take a class at the Avala Institute. So I did, and that was the start of me enrolling in their spiritual direction program, and I was able to do some of it online. And then by the time I needed to travel to do the rest of my training, I God had given me the grace to walk away from my job, walk away from my athletics coaching and leave all that behind and just start new. So that was a long explanation, but that's how I got here.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

You know, I'm so glad that you did that you, and that's kind of why I asked you the question, because I think sometimes we can hear, I'll say, if you're if you are tied down by this, then you're not able to hear God's voice. But it's not always like a one and done thing. Just like you said, you started having these stirrings. And I think a lot of them, a lot of us have them. Actually, I was talking to a very good friend of mine yesterday when we were at lunch. She's like, have you ever had that feeling like you're you're meant for something, but you don't know what it is, and you can't figure it out. And and then you're doing other things to see if that's the thing, or you're buffering with things that aren't moving you forward or not connecting you to the Lord. And then somebody told her, put yourself in a posture of listening to the Lord and see what he has to say. And that's what happened to you. You know, you you started with those stirrings, went to school, and then seven years later, you're like, yeah, I'm still drawn to spiritual direction. I'm still, you know, and you know that that's a God thing because it it comes back up at the right time. It's the Lord places these desires on our hearts, and then maybe they don't all of a sudden bloom into something, but they're there, and he's just kind of laying those holy breadcrumbs all along, equipping us in different ways all along the way, you know, through different education, through different connections, through all those types of things. And then when you're in adoration, you you find that car, you put yourself in a posture of listening, and there you are. So I'm glad that you told that. And because it really leads into what we're going to be talking about today. Why is it important that we hear God's voice? It's important that we hear God's voice so that we can do the thing that we know that he knows is going to be most fulfilling to us, that is us doing his will in our lives. So, with that, you know, the the phrase disordered attachment, I'll use it sometimes instead of like you're addicted to scrolling, you're addicted to this, you're addicted to that. On some level, maybe it could it could be clinically maybe said that way, but really it's a disordered attachment to a created thing that we have access to. It and a lot of times it's not a bad thing, it's just something that we have taken and misused or put in a place that it doesn't belong, gave it a job that it doesn't deserve. So, how do you, as a spiritual director and coach, explain disordered attachment to someone who comes to you?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

I would say that first of all, there are various levels of attachment. Disordered attachment would be anything that is hindering your ability to love God well and by extension, love yourself or love others well. In a very simple nutshell, that is how I would define it. Now, if that attachment grows stronger and stronger, of course, then we can start to idolize certain things or that could be people. I think that attachments can come in all shapes and sizes. And just like you said, they don't necessarily have to be bad, quote unquote bad things, right? A lot of times they're very morally neutral and used in the right capacity, they're fine, right? But it's again when it starts to hinder our ability to love God well, when we start to prioritize that thing over our relationship with God, over our responsibilities as wives, as mothers, you know, whatever that might be, then those attachments become disordered. They're getting in the way of what we were created to do, which is to know love and to serve God.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah, that's such a I really like how you articulated that. That's like the perfect definition for it. So, why do you think that ordinary attachments like that are morally neutral? You know, wine isn't good or bad. It's just what it is, right? But it's how we use it. So things like wine or scrolling or food or busyness, why are those the ones that we don't really question? Do you think?

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I think because when we start out, we have no intent of them becoming disordered, right? The enemy likes to creep in silently. And that's when it's dangerous, is we don't recognize that it's happening. So I'll use uh an attachment that is a struggle in my life right now. Okay. My constant addiction to like reading, okay. And I'm not like reading is a good thing, right? It's a good and healthy and can be a really holy thing. But if I ask myself, is this getting in the way of my relationship with God? Where is this leading me? Then I can fully acknowledge there are times when I feel the Lord prompted me to do something and I'm like, eh, I really don't want to do that. Or I will notice, like, I am avoiding, I actually prayed about this in adoration this morning. I am avoiding some of the pain, like physical pain in my body, because I have a lot of health things. Like I'm avoiding headaches and stomach aches or nausea or whatever it is by reading, like I'm gonna read like a fun book, just like people might watch movies, right? But for me, it's reading. I'm avoiding that. And so because I'm avoiding that pain, I'm also avoiding prayer because I've I know if I go sit in prayer, I'm fully going to feel everything that my body is feeling because I'm just gonna be sitting there talking to God. And so I just kind of recognize that this morning. Like I'm using it as an excuse to not go pray. Oh, I don't feel well enough. And so when we start to use things as an excuse and we can recognize that, there's probably some sort of disordered attachment there. We don't want to give it up. We try to justify it in our brain. We argue with ourselves, I've earned this, I deserve this, all of those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yes. And you hit the nail on the head. It's like we're using it to avoid something else. We're using it to you were saying not focus so much on your suffering, which is understandable. And it reading is great. I wish that I could read a lot. But mine, mine isn't sitting down and reading, but it's listening to audiobook. So I'll have that going in my ear. Yeah. And I'll have that going in my ear all the time. So I might be avoiding, I might miss conversations, I might miss doing work or hearing God's voice because I'm listening to a thriller book that's not really even teaching me anything. It's just fun, like you said. So I think when you were talking about that, it's like asking ourselves, what is underneath it? Instead of just being like, I shouldn't be doing this, I know I shouldn't be scrolling or I should be reading as much, or I shouldn't, whatever it is, all the shoulds that we say, stopping and saying, but what's underneath that? And what is God calling me to with that thing, with that suffering, with whatever I'm trying to avoid through productivity, through, you know, shopping or you know, all the different things that we all get attached to. We all have our have our things. And then we just kind of miss, we stay stuck in shame because as you mentioned, like the enemy uses these things as strongholds. And so he tempts us to sin, he tempts us, like, you've had a really hard day, you deserve this, you're entitled even. And then once we give into it, then it's like, oh, you're terrible. Like, why can't you get it together? You have no willpower, or you are never gonna get this, and then we feel even worse about ourselves, and then that can even keep us from God because then we don't feel like we can approach him because then we're feeling all that shame. So, with that in mind, what as a spiritual director, what do you think is actually happening in the interior life when we are attaching to something? And why does why does that make it harder for us to hear God? Why can't he just break through and say, hey, stop doing the thing because I have something to tell you?

SPEAKER_01 17:55

He's God. So technically he could like the Holy Spirit can do whatever he wants to do. And I think that sometimes the Lord really does break through those attachments. But as you were talking, you know, like I said, it creeps in silently. And again, reading in and of itself is not bad, but it's just recognizing what is this leading me to? Am I doing it, you know, when I've already taken care of the things that need done for my children and my work is complete and I've already had my morning prayer time, great, then fine. But if I'm avoiding my morning prayer time because I'm like, I'm just tired and I'd rather just sit here and read this book with my coffee instead of going to spend time with Jesus first thing in the morning, then it starts to become disruptive because that becomes the new pattern for my morning. And now I'm not spending that time with God, right? So again, it's not that we can't have these things, but as we start to become more and more drawn to them. So St. Ignatius of Loyola teaches we are constantly moving from what's called consolation to desolation. So consolation is when God feels really near, and it's really easy to be like, okay, this temptation's coming. Like I can move past it. I have all of this grace, everything's fine. And then we start to go back into this desolation. So desolation is when God doesn't feel very near and we might be filled with worry or anxiety. Uh, we might feel more stressed. And the definition that St. Ignatius uses, he says we are drawn to lowly things. So one of those signs is like we are, we can't seem to get out of the scrolling, the doom scrolling. It's just there. We can't seem to help ourselves from reaching for the drink. And that first wave of temptation is the strongest. And if we don't fight it right away, if we don't recognize, like, okay, I know this pattern, I know where this is leading, then you know, the enemy takes a stronghold, our will becomes weak, and then we're like reaching for more of it. We're reaching for more of it, and it becomes harder to get out of it. What's happened in my own experience is when I have an attachment to something, I'm not equally open to what the Lord is willing. So, for example, if I'm praying about something, I'm like, Lord, should I do this or should I do this? And there's one I really like, I want to do this. And God says, Okay, go do that thing. I'm like, sweet, thank you. I right away, I'll go do the thing. But if he tells me to do the other thing, I might start saying, like, are you sure, God? Like, I just want to confirm that this is what you're telling me. Can you, if if this is what you want, you want me to go talk to this person, okay, you're gonna have to make a way. And I will, you know, just ask for quote unquote reassurance so long that that opportunity is then lost. The other thing that I will notice is when I'm attached to, again, let's say a certain answer, even in my head, sometimes the voice of God is really clear. But if it's almost like yes, no, yes, no, or I at least this is the way it almost sounds in my brain, it's almost like it's like an arguing voice, or like there's just something there. I can usually tell that's probably a good indication that I'm blocking the voice of God in some way. Like I'm not open to what he wants to tell me. I don't want to hear it. And the other thing we can do is just completely avoid asking him altogether because it's like, I know he's gonna tell me not to have that drink, and then I'm gonna feel guilty if I go against what he tells me. So I'm just not even gonna ask. I'm just gonna avoid the conversation altogether. And so when we have these attachments, it just uh puts this wall up between us and God. We're not open to what he wants to tell us. And this is something we all struggle with. St. Ignatius calls it holy indifference or spiritual freedom is another way that you might hear this. And it's uh being equally open to all things. So even if it's sickness or health, it's whatever one is gonna lead you to salvation. So if having an illness is going to draw you closer to God, I mean, yes, it's this horrible evil thing, but think of how many people you've seen, whether on social media or maybe you know someone personally, that through you know, a terminal illness grew so incredibly close to the Lord. If that is what he allowed for their salvation, we just have to, you know, trust that everything that he allows is to be used for our salvation. So even if it's in a struggle with alcohol or it's a struggle with an attachment to whatever it is, if we can just trust that he's using that for to strengthen us for our salvation, then we can recognize okay, if he's using this, then he has also given me everything that I need to overcome it.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yes. Oh gosh, there's so much there. So one thing that you said the negotiating. That negotiating that you're doing in your mind, which I know so many, just all the humans deal with it, but with my clients, it's like three o'clock, they start negotiating. Am I gonna drink wine tonight? Am I not gonna drink wine? You know, it's like this constant battle in their head, and we call it wine chatter or, you know, people that struggle with food, they'll call it food noise. And it's just, it takes up that space, and you can't really think of anything else. You're fixated on it. And when you said that's blocking the voice of God, it totally is because you're so focused on this battle in your mind between what you know that you should do and what your humanness wants to do, that it just takes up so much energy. And then by the time six o'clock rolls around, or you're laying in bed and you're just scrolling on your phone, doom scrolling, you're exhausted from all of that negotiating. And because the Lord hasn't, you know, you haven't made space for the Lord, it's really difficult to fight that. And I'm just thinking, yeah, yes, that is exactly what is happening. And so instead of turning to the creator, we turn to created things for our comfort, for our peace, for our happiness. And those things will never fulfill us the way that the Lord will, his peace, his joy, you know, that surpasses all understanding, kind of like you were talking about those people that suffer well and draw so close to the Lord, and you see them and you're like, oh my goodness, you're so suffering. You must be in so much pain. And yet they have this sense of joy and peace around them, not saying that they're not, that they don't struggle with things, but you can just sense that peace and that joy because they are uniting their suffering, you know, to Christ and allowing the Lord to work in them. Um the other thing you said was asking God, like talking to God about what he thinks about this attachment. How I've said it to my clients, ask God, what do you think about my drinking? What do you think about the way that I'm drinking right now? And it's scary because they're like, he's gonna say he doesn't like it and he doesn't want me to do it anymore. And they're not ready to give it up. And you know, it's like St. Augustine, make me chaste, but not yet. I mean, we all do that. I do that with scrolling, with sugar, with many different things, and have throughout my life, I want to give this up, but not quite yet, not quite ready yet. And so really putting ourselves in that posture of trust and surrender and saying, okay, Lord, I'm ready to hear it. What do you think about it? It's a really good foundation to start to be able to then take those steps towards change and toward God and starting to kind of take those bricks out of the wall. You were saying that attachment is a wall that we put between ourselves and God. And I could not agree more. So every time we don't do it, we're taking a brick out. And scientifically, we're rebuilding our neural pathways, but spiritually speaking, we're starting to like take out those bricks that are keeping us from God until we can strip it down. So some women will tell me that they pray every day, they go to mass weekly, sometimes daily, and they still feel distant from God. What would you say to those women, you know, if she was sitting in front of you as a spiritual director?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah, I think that every person is in a different place on their spiritual journey. And this is where spiritual directors are so helpful because they journey with you and they kind of know your situation. So as a more blanket statement, because again, desolation can also can often very much look like spiritual dryness. But the difference is one, so in spiritual dryness, this is actually something from God. This is a good thing. This is like uh strengthening in a purification. You still want to pray. You want to pray, but you go and you're sitting there and you're distracted, and it feels like it's hard to stay there and it feels like nothing's happening and God's not talking to you. It feels like you're in the desert and you've been there forever. Whereas in desolation, it might still feel like that when you go to pray, but you're like, I don't really want to be there. Like, I'd rather be, you know, having the drink. I'd rather be scrolling on my phone. And so those two can look very similar, but one is from God and one is not. God allows desolation, but it's not of him. And he allows it for a couple of different reasons. One to kind of try us and one to grow us in humility, reminding us that like we can't overcome our obstacles on our own. We need him. And another one is spiritual laziness. So you kind of look at those things, but in general, if you're feeling that way, one keep praying, but maybe look at the way that you're praying. What is your relationship with God like? When you go to prayer, because this happens to a lot of women, and I know women I've worked with that have prayed this way their whole life. They go to daily mass, they read the readings, but they don't understand what prayer looks like in relationship of simplifying prayer and sitting and having a conversation with God. They don't know how to do that. Maybe they've never been taught. You know, we have this beautiful Catholic faith where we learn all the rote prayers, but we don't necessarily know or maybe haven't been taught how to have conversations with God and what to do when we get to prayer and how to start that to keep our brain from going to all the different places. So that's a lot of what the work that I do with women is. And so often I just say, let's tell me about your prayer. What does it look like? What does it feel like? And a lot of times we're actually simplifying because they're trying to do so many things in their prayer time that their mind is automatically like on the checklist of like, I have to try to finish this before I run out of time. And so we pull back all the layers and we really just simplify. I have certain scripture verses that are based on themes. And then when they go to prayer, they know exactly like, okay, first day, I'm praying with this. Day two, I'm praying with this. Day three, I'm praying with this. And that for a lot of people is really helpful. It just simplifies. We're not doing all of the daily readings. It's like one short gospel passage or one short psalm or part of a psalm. And that can be really helpful. So focusing on the relationship with God, on the conversation with Him, not the word vomit of this is everything that's going on, and focusing it in a little bit. I would say one other thing is how are you preparing for prayer? So if you're like, I set aside 15 minutes every morning for prayer, but you are running around and then you come and you sit in a chair, and it's like I gotta pull out my phone to get to the app to play the thing, and there's no prep for that, that's gonna affect your prayer. If you're running into mass as mass is starting, and you've been getting your kids together, and then it was chaos in the car, and now you're there, and you're not in a good disposition to really receive the Lord, that's gonna affect what's going on. And that's gonna happen sometimes, just as moms. I'll just state that. But I will say, since my family has started going to mass earlier, that has changed things significantly for me. We're at mass 15 minutes before mass starts, just that quiet time. My disposition is very different in mass than it was when we were walking in four minutes before mass started.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

It's so true too. It's funny because our 11 o'clock mass, we get to mass early, my family and I, because we learned that also the hard way. Like rushing in just does not help anything. But it's difficult sometimes, especially when the kids, when our kids were littler, it just seemed like it took so much longer. And so we were kind of rushing in at the last minute. But at the 11 o'clock mass at our parish, I'll look around like just as mass is about to start, and there's like nobody there. And then I'll get up to like lecture or something, and then there's like a whole bunch of people there. So people are just coming in at the last minute. And I do think, oh, that just they felt so rushed, or they missed some of the readings, or they missed the early prayers. And so I am glad that you mentioned that, not to shame anybody if you're late because it just it does happen, but preparing for prayer, just as you would prepare for mass, getting dressing up, getting your family ready, getting there. We will say we have a rosary before mass. So that's always nice, even if we come in and only get a couple of decades in. It's just making sure that you are prepared and that you're calm and you're in a good posture for praying. And I think it you said something really important. You don't have to have all the right words, you don't have to tell the Lord all the things. I know the women in my seasonal programs, especially when I do a seasonal program, we'll have a scripture, a reflection, and then some coaching questions. And I always hear from women, that's so helpful because that's kind of how they start their day and they have something to focus on and do that reading and do that reflection, and then they can take it with them throughout the rest of the day. One thing that happens, well, actually, first, let me one more thing on what you were talking about the growing and the stretching. You teach the difference between God stretching us for growth and the enemy kind of pulling us apart. So can you unpack that a little bit for my audience so they can understand that?

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yeah. I think that this really comes back to do you know the voice of God? And we were all created to know the voice of God. Like he is our shepherd, it says that in scripture. And we were made to know his voice. So we can trust that we can hear him. Most women are hearing him, they just don't realize that they're hearing him. And so that's part of the coaching work that I do too, is how do we discern what is of God, what is not of God? And so when we recognize, again, that desolation, the voice of the enemy is the loudest voice when we're in desolation. That's that voice that is tearing you apart, that is telling you you're never gonna get over this addiction. You're never gonna, you think you can't go a day without a drink. You think you're gonna be able to go a week? You think you're gonna be able to go five years? You think you're gonna be able to go forever, right? That's the voice of the enemy constantly telling you that you're gonna fail. When God is stretching us, it can still be really hard. He can still ask us to do things that are very uncomfortable. But the Lord is going to be convicting. He's going to be gentle. He's gonna be that coach who's like, okay, I'm gonna ask you, I'm gonna be hard on you, but I'm right here cheering you on. Like, I've got you in this. And you know what? If you mess up, we're just gonna try again. And we're not gonna have shame about it. And so really, it's just about recognizing those voices in your head. And I always say, just because something is true doesn't mean it's helpful. So when you replay that thought back in your head, or it's something that someone told you, even if it's true, if it's not helpful, if it is not leading you to God, then don't give it airtime, don't give it attention. I again, I'm just gonna talk about St. Ignatius. He says in something called principle of found in foundations, he says, Man is created to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by this means to save his soul. And other things on the face of the earth are created for man that they may help him in uh prosecuting the end for which he is created. So essentially, we are created to know love and serve God and anything on earth is used to help us get there, right? To help us journey on that narrow road to union with God. And if we are not using it in that manner, then that's probably a disordered attachment or something that we're maybe not using in the way that we should be. So again, tying this all back together, the Lord is going to help us recognize how to use these things in a way that is good and holy and true. And his voice is going to be gentle. It is going to bring us peace and calm. If we are in a state of grace, I will go back to this because this is an important distinction. If we are in a state of grace, like we're not in a state of mortal sin, the Lord is going to prompt us gently and he is going to be loving. The voice of the enemy is going to be prickly, it's going to be angry, it's going to attack all of those wounds that we have. He's going to attack those things that we are avoiding. So again, it goes back to that question of like, what am I avoiding with the buffering, with the doom scrolling? What part of myself am I trying to hide away? And God is going to say, Hey, let's go back to that little girl who was hurt. Like, can I just hold you there? That's where God's going to be. But sometimes we're just, we're scared because we have these protective parts of our body that are popping up. And they're saying, Don't go there. Like, that's scary, that's uncomfortable. And so just going back to spending time with the Lord, the more time we spend with him, the more comfortable we're going to be with him, the more we're going to trust him. And that can start really small and simple of just a few minutes a day of Lord, here I am. Love me and bless me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

That's I that is all that's really, really helpful. I like how you talked about what the enemy's voice sounds like versus what God's voice sounds like, and letting us know, like, God's voice can be convicting, but it's in a very loving way. It's not condemning or shaming or any of those other things that the enemy likes to do to do to us to keep us stuck where we're at. I also appreciated that you mentioned being in a state of grace because sometimes I'll have women that come to me and they pray every day and all of that, but they're not receiving the sacraments because they don't feel worthy to, because they're not able to conquer their vices, right? And so they'll say, I haven't been to the sacrament of reconciliation in so long because I haven't been able to stop drinking or reduce drinking or what scrolling or gossiping or whatever it is. And so they're not receiving those beautiful graces that we get in the sacrament of reconciliation. And then they're not going to, they're not receiving the Eucharist because they're in a state of mortal sin. And so, you know, it's just the place where the enemy wants us. And so I'm I try to explain, no, just the fact that you are working toward freeing yourself, untangling yourself, asking those questions, the Lord will work with that because He has equipped all of us with these supernatural superpowers, with our spiritual gifts to fight these things against the enemy and receiving the sacraments and those graces. And I'm probably not theologically saying it correctly. So you could correct me on anything I say. But the way I see it is when we go, well, actually, when we when my kids were doing their reconciliation, they were studying for their first reconciliation, they had an exercise where we put all these like tea light candles and lit all of them. And then one by one, we would blow out the tea light candles. And then the room was dark and you couldn't see. And what that represented was our sins, whether they were venial or you know, mortal sins, blowing that out. And so what it was saying was the Lord is still there. It's just hard for us to see him because we have inked things up by you know, with our sin and our vices and all of that. And so then when we go to reconciliation and we lit all those tea light candles up again, and then it just illuminated the room, and then you could see him again. So I think it frees up those channels to be able to, like you said, recognize God's voice versus the enemy's voice in those situations.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

This is where that question of what is the fruit of the thought I am following, right? Because the enemy can appear as an angel of light, and it isn't sometimes we follow it because it sounds like God, but then we look at like where is it leading us? If it is leading us away from the church, if it is leading us to sin, then we know, like, okay, that's not from God. So we can look back, and I'll just speak of my own drinking experience. I can look back, and that was one of the big indicators for me. Like, the fruit of this is not good. The thing, the choices that I am making after I'm drinking are not good. And so that's not a good and holy thing. It's not leading me where I want to. If you look at the women who are avoiding the sacraments, who wants you to avoid the sacraments? Not God, right? So who are you choosing to listen to right now? And that's not a condemnation. Again, we all do it, but just ask yourself that question: who wants me to believe this? And if it's not God, then that's not a choice that we probably want to make. And you're among good company. Teresa Vavla is known, she spent years not praying, like not praying on her own, because she didn't feel worthy of it. And in her writings, she talks about like how big of a mistake that was. That's we have to keep praying. The only way we fail is if we stop showing up again and again and continuing to have that relationship with God. He wants the sinners, right? He leaves the 99, he goes after the one. He didn't come as a physician to heal those who are already healthy, right? And so just let God love you there. Let God love you there, exactly where you are.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Thank you so much for that. I know that that's gonna speak to a lot of women. So if you haven't, or and men, whoever's listening, if you haven't been to the sacrament of reconciliation, do just as Kylie suggested, go and let God love you there. Let him, he loves us too much to leave us where we are, but he loves us so much that he is always there for us and he's fighting for us, even when, even when we have a hard time seeing it or feeling it, and just opening up those channels helps so much with that. So, just a couple more questions. One is so for the woman who's listening and suspects that she has something that might be an order, disordered attachment, but she's kind of afraid to look at it. What is one prayer practice that you could suggest that maybe would help her discern whether or not it's it is a disordered attachment or it's just a habit that she needs to get a hold of?

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Uh well, first of all, I'll probably say you do. You do have a disorder detail, whether you think you do or not, because we all have them. I will say I found this out kind of a hard way. I found out I was allergic to glycerin and phenol, which are in pretty much everything. I never, my whole life, I've never worn very much makeup. That's never been a thing for me. But when I found out that I face wash, makeup, hair products, like all these things I had to cut out, I was like, oh my gosh. I realized how attached to them I really was. Even if you don't feel attached, you probably have some sort of attachment. But just asking the Lord, like, Lord, can you just open to my eyes to an attachment that I'm clinging to right now? Like, what is in my hands that I am not ready to let go of to more fully receive you? And if you're not there yet, because maybe you know what it is underneath and you're not ready to look at it yet, just be like, Lord, help me want to want to look at this. Like, just back it up. Or Lord, I'm not ready. To look at this attachment yet. I'm not ready to see it yet, but can you work in my heart so that I can want to look at it? Can you let me know how much you love me so that I can see that I don't need this to be the person that you created me to be?

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Oh, that's so good. Okay. Everybody stop this, rewind it, and write down what Kylie just said. That was so good. Thank you so much for that. I think that is such a good way to you're right. We we kind of know, we we do know. It's like when you have a closet that you've shoved a bunch of stuff in and you don't really want to look at it, you don't really want to get the stuff out of it, but you know the things are there and if you open it, it's just gonna spill out. We know it's there, but we don't want to deal with it right away. So I think that I love that prayer that you said. Help me want to look at it, help me want to look at it. I think that's so powerful. So thank you so much for that.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

I'll just add one more thing. Sure. If something comes to your mind and you're like, oh, I'll think about it, I'll I'll cut that out tomorrow or look at it tomorrow, you're probably attached to it, right? If I think about sugar or something with all my helpings, like, okay, fine, I can go a day without sugar. It's really not a big deal. But if you're like, I'm gonna take away your Kindle, like fine. I mean, I could still, but I I can feel it in my body, like instinctively in my body, I'm like, oh, that's really gonna suck. Like I read every day.

unknown 46:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Yes, yeah, exactly. And that's what I tell people because the women that come to me aren't necessarily at a place where they want to let go of alcohol forever. Not ever, I don't think everybody has to, but what has to happen for it not to be a disordered attachment anymore is it has to be neutral. So alcohol has to be neutral. You can't be arguing with yourself about it or any of that. So kind of like what you were saying with sugar, you could say, oh, that's not that big of a deal. But your Kindle, you're like, no, you cannot pry this out of my head. Then it might be something worth examining further. So before we close, I would just love it if you could speak to those that are listening today. And what is one truth that you would like my listeners to walk away with?

SPEAKER_01 47:32

I think it always comes back to God loves you exactly as you are. Like you don't have to fix anything for him to start loving you. You don't have to be detached from things for him to love you. And something that was really powerful for me when I went through the spiritual exercises was that understanding that God will not reveal the fullness of my sin until I first know how much he loves me. And the closer we grow to him and the more we understand his love, the more he reveals our attachments. That's why my confession list has gotten longer and longer as I've gotten older. It's because I'm more aware of things that I never even considered sinful or disordered or, you know, not that they're all sins, but even just imperfections. I never even recognize them before. But because I know how much he loves me, I'm much more aware of those things. And through his grace, some things will just naturally fall away. For me, watching TV, I have zero desire to watch movies. I would say 99% of the time. I just have no interest in it. There are certain things, there are certain groups of people, certain activities. And like I just have zero desire to go do those things. He just strips them away. And so if we can just trust that he loves us and keep going to him, like, yes, we have to work at letting go of some of our attachments, but also he gives us these infused graces so that we can let go of them too. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Oh, that's so good. Thank you so much for that. So go ahead and tell my listeners, tell them a little bit about your amazing podcast. Kylie interviews so many people, and she does such a wonderful job interviewing. So tell us about your podcast, your coaching, your spiritual direction, anything you want, where people can find you, just all the things.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Yeah. So the podcast is called Persistence in Prayer. I always say I created it for myself, but also the warmer version of myself, which is where a lot of women I work with are, where we are constantly seeking our worth or validation from praise, perfection, and productivity. It's not from God. And so the podcast is to help women create space to prioritize God and help them to recognize their worth exactly as they are as daughters of Christ. And so, how do we prioritize prayer in the chaos and the busyness of all the things that we are doing? Different ways to pray, inspirational stories for holiness. I have coaches, I have authors. Christy's been on there. She's going to be back soon. So be sure to go check that out. You can find my website is kylemhine.com. I'm on Instagram sometimes at Kylie M. Hein as well. And again, those are the women I primarily work with. God blesses me with such diversity. I originally thought I was going to be working with all of these moms in the midst of chaos. And he sends me women from their 20s to their 60s in all walks of life. So I just always pray that the person who needs me, God will send me. And that's who I'm there for. Whoever, whoever needs it and feels like the Lord is calling into that, that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Thank you again for being here, for sharing your insights. It was a blessing and a pleasure to chat with you. And I look forward to chatting with you again soon. Thanks, Christy. Well, that does it for this episode of the Catholic Sobriety Podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And I would invite you to share it with a friend who might also get value from it as well. And make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing. I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach, and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer, visit my website, the Catholic Sobriety Coach.com. Follow me on Instagram at Catholic Sobriety Coach. I and remember.