Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives, women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason. I am your host, Kristi Walker. I'm a wife, mom, and a joy-filled Catholic, and I am the Catholic sobriety coach, and I am so glad you're here. I'm so excited because today is a monumental day, because I have never had one of my lab members or clients on this podcast. Because as you know, alcohol and trying to find that level of sobriety that's right for us, it can carry a stigma. And so I just really haven't asked anyone to come on and share their story or their testimony, and I will be doing that from now on because this is such a gift and a grace. And I have Abby here with us today. She is a wife and a mom, and she has been alcohol-free for 232 days. Congratulations, Abby. And- Thank you. It's an honor to be here. Yes. I'm so excited to have you. As I was telling you before I pushed record, a lot of times we see somebody who has a number of days under their belt. They've strung along quite a few one day at a times, and we can think, "Wow, that just, it just clicked for her all of a sudden. She must be, like, super strong. She must have really great willpower." And, you know, we, we think all of these things, 'cause I know I think about that sometimes when I see people who are really fit, and I'm not exercising. So... But, but we don't think about the journey that it took to get there. So would you please share with my audience just a bit of your story and how you got to this 232 days of alcohol freedom? Yes. That is quite a story. So starting off, I obviously didn't just wake up one morning and decide that I wasn't going to drink. It was kind of a progressive thing, as alcohol tends to be. I just noticed an uptick in my drinking after my daughter was born, and I think it was tied to some postpartum issues. And that was kind of at the end of 2019, and then 2020 hit, and there was a lot more alcohol, and it was a lot more consistent. And somewhere in maybe 20, 2021, around there, I'd first started thinking, like, "I'm drinking too much. I need to stop this." And I had tried just cutting it out probably about six different times, and those would only last about two to three months. And It would usually start at, I would make an exception for a special occasion, and then I would make another exception, and then another exception, and then I would be drinking on a Tuesday night for no reason. So those were super successful, and despite how good I felt not drinking, 'cause I did. I honestly, my sleep was better. I wasn't as groggy. I mentally felt better, clearer. I always just went back. So it wasn't until, uh, I guess it was right around my 30th birthday. T- yeah, my 30th birthday was my last drink, and I just really felt God asking me, "Can you give this up and come follow me? And you cannot be who I need you to be in this world and still hold onto this alcohol the way you are." And then He gave me the grace to just peacefully say no to alcohol. I so appreciate that you said that you tried six different times to set boundaries and moderate. Because so many times we want to hold on. We're like, "Well, maybe I can still have it in my life." And for some people, if they can get to a place where alcohol is neutral for them, like they could take it or leave it- Mm-hmm ... then that may be possible for them. But for some of us, having it removed completely is where we find the most peace, where we have- Mm-hmm so much joy, and we see more benefits not having it in our life. So I appreciate that you said that you tried six different times, and you also took us through, like, how it was a slippery slope for you, right? 'Cause then you would make- Very slippery ... an exception, and another exception, and another exception. And we do that all the time- Mm ... as, as humans trying to cut anything out of our lives. But it can be- Mm ... especially difficult with alcohol, just because of the way the alcohol works with our brain and can rewire our brain. So it takes a strong why to move forward, plus God's grace, obviously, working with our action. What was that strong why for you? Was it because God asked you and said, like, "You, I really need you to do this so that I, you can be the person that I need you to be so that you can take up your cross and follow me," or was, were there other reasons? I mean, that was the biggest why. There were smaller ones, which, you know, was my, my children and my family. Um, those were definitely smaller whys. But doing what God asked me to do and being right in the center of the plan that He had to me was definitely the most important thing. So take us back a little bit. What did- your drinking look like day to day before you stopped drinking? Like, were you an everyday drinker? Were you a just on weekend drinker? What was the average of that? So here's a little bit of my backstory with that, too. I grew up in a family that didn't really drink at all. I was raised Southern Baptist, and it was well known that my mom's dad was an alcoholic at one point. So none of the family really drank. I wasn't really introduced to it. However, I ended up meeting and marrying a Catholic man in a Southern Baptist church, which sounds really funny. Mm-hmm. But yeah, he had gone to culinary school, and as we got married, we started exploring alcohol a little bit together, having wine with meals and just different things like that. But it, at the point where I thought it was too much and I had to, you know, something had to change, was probably at the point where I was having about three drinks a night, and that was on average about every night. And it just got to the point where I would force myself to stop at three, and I would just be irritated, 'cause I wanted another one, but I knew I just couldn't do it. So that was just the friction. It was just this tug of war back and forth with the alcohol and wanting it and knowing that I shouldn't have it. It was very, very difficult. Yeah, there's a lot of that chatter in our brains. It's like that, I'll say, like, it's wine chatter if it's wine for people. But it's just the planning, the preparing, and then, like you said, you'd have three, and then you'd get irritated 'cause you couldn't have another one, but you wanted another one. So that's a whole- Yeah ... 'nother level of trying to will yourself not to go any further, because you're like, "If I have- Yeah ... another one, then, you know, I don't even know." So you are talking a lot about the mental gymnastics that you were doing with yourself, like all that wine chatter or the alcohol- Mm-hmm chatter that you had going on in your brain- Mm-hmm ... at time when you were drinking. And then even when you were drinking at your most, when you were having those three drinks every single night, you would have to stop yourself at that third drink, and you would get frustrated. How did you notice the chatter quiet or calm down for you? Does it still come up at all? Actually, especially in the beginning, I, I kind of got a thrill from saying no, because I knew I was doing what God asked me to do. So there wasn't any chatter, and there's really not much now either. It's just kind of a non-issue, and I think just saying yes to God and receiving that grace and just totally closing the door on that has really changed everything, and it's made the struggle bearable, for sure. So when you, when you shifted and you stopped trying to do it on your own willpower or your own strength and your own bargaining and moderating and trying to place boundaries around your drinking, and you really, in obedience to the Lord, said, "Yes, I will do this," what did that actually look like practically for you? Practically, honestly, it just, it just looked like me saying no. Okay. My husband's, "Do you want, I have a- I'm gonna make a margarita. Do you want one?" "No." "Do you want a glass of red wine?" "No." It, it was just very peaceful. It was just very easy to say no at that point. The mental gymnastics just weren't there. The, the chatter wasn't there anymore. It was kind of a night and day, just a very stark difference between before I would feel very deprived and look at me, boo-hoo, I don't get to, I don't get to have fun. But now I'm like, I'm, I'm having fun. This is great. I feel, I feel amazing. And I have a story recently. I grew up in Louisville, and the Kentucky Derby was a really big thing, and I have a friend that has a crawfish derby party, like yearly on, on the day of the derby. And the, I've gone probably about four times, and the previous three times I always drank there. And this, this past time that I went earlier this month, I noticed the difference because I didn't drink. I just sipped on seltzer water and everything, and I saw this woman, she had a drink in her hand and she was like, "Oh, I have to eat something. It's hitting me really hard." And all of a sudden my brain went back to, oh, I remember what that felt like. And I could kind of almost like vicariously live it through her. Mm-hmm. And I could see that, and I could see the other people, like my husband had an old fashion or something, and I, I remember the previous years of just kind of being really numb, fuzzy, zoned out, like not feeling great, maybe a slight headache. But this past time I just felt so refreshed and so happy. My kids were just running around playing with their friends. There was live music. It was just a really beautiful time. I actually caught myself smiling. I was so happy about this. And I turned to my husband and I was like, "You know what feels amazing? Being sober. This feels so good." And he just kinda looks at me like, "Yeah, all right." But the joy was just overflowing out of me in that moment, and I just, I couldn't contain it. I was just so happy, and I feel like God showed me a little bit, remember? Remember what this was like? Mm-hmm. And I'm like, "Yes. Thank you, God. Thank you again." Yes. Yeah, as you're talking, you touched on something that I talk about all the time, that- That thought that we have of, "I can't have it," to, "I'm choosing not to." And so that- Mm ... takes the FOMO, the fear of missing out, and it turns it into JOMO, and it sounds like you had the joy of ma- missing out at that party, and you were just like recognized it in that moment. You were so joyful being fully present, and also- Mm-hmm ... seeing, not from a place of judgment or anything, other people doing what you did the year before and being like, "Oh, yeah, that was... That felt terrible the next morning," or, "That didn't- Yeah ... feel good in the moment, and I knew I needed to eat something, 'cause I was, the room was spinning." You know, so you could- Mm-hmm ... look at that from a place of compassion and empathy like, "Girl, I've been there before." Oh, yes. For sure. For sure. Yes. I, I remember exactly what that felt like. Yeah. I'm so glad that you shared that story, because I think that a lot of times it's, we, it's very natural to have a fear of, "Oh, I'm not gonna... You know, everybody's gonna be judging me because I'm not drinking," or, "Maybe I'm not gonna be fun," or, "Maybe I'm gonna be the wet blanket because I'm saying no or I'm not having stuff to drink." But you, through your story, just showed like how you were able to be fully present for everybody there, and got to see your children playing, and you had a great time, and you got to wake up the next morning and feel good instead of having to spend the half the day or the whole day recovering from the evening before, which can be not very fun. Yes. I do remember those days. Yeah. I do too, and it's been almost 30 years, and I still can very vividly remember just that dehydration and, and all the headaches and- Oh, yeah ... it's miserable. Oh, the 3:00 AM wake-ups with like the massive throbbing headache, and then just the thought of, "I need to chug water." I never need water at night anymore. It's amazing. Never. So how do you view alcohol now compared to before? Has your perspective on alcohol changed fundamentally? Do you still think about it in the same way? Really, when I thought about it before, it was in the context of, "I can't wait until 5:00 can hit. I can't wait until I have that first drink." Then when I thought about it, it was like the fancy glass, the pretty liquid, you know, the first 20 minutes of being relaxed before, you know, you needed to drink more to make it feel better. Like, that was all I could see. And now when I actually think about it, I remember the throbbing headaches. I remember kind of the numb feeling. At night and just kind of out of it, and I remember being, the dehydration and the waking up, and I remember just how bad I felt the next morning. You know, it was to the point where I'd be like, "Ugh, I'm never doing that again." And then 5:00 would hit and I'd be like, "Oh, okay, glass of wine time." Yeah, so I, yeah, before I guess I just thought of the front end of drinking, but now I just always picture the back end of the drinking really, is kind of how I view to then and now. Yeah. We call that playing the tape forward. You're playing the tape forward. If I have this right now, especially for women who are trying to discover can I still have alcohol in my life or, or should I not, they have- Mm-hmm ... to just look at it from a perspective of curiosity and what is this doing for me, what am I getting from this, what do I think I'm getting from it, what am I really getting from it, and asking themselves, like, "What am I gonna feel like the next day?" Playing that tape forward. And so when you play that tape forward- Mm-hmm ... you're like, "Yeah, I don't wanna feel the way that I felt so often. It was miserable." Mm-hmm. And once you get down the road and you're further removed from alcohol, you really start to feel those benefits more and more, and then you're like, "Oh yeah, I remember those days." We can also get into the trap of romanticizing alcohol though, like thinking of only- Mm ... the fun parts of it or the, what we enjoyed about it, especially people who pair wine with food. Mm-hmm. You were saying you and your husband did, you would pair wine with food, and that just was something that was kind of just a treat and it was something that you liked. How do you view that now? Was that something that you kept on doing, or was that just for a time? Yeah, we did. Obviously now I don't. He still does. Yeah. Um, I, I just, I don't care. It's not that big of a deal. I don't even know how else to say that. Okay. Um, so a lot of times, like I have my special drinks at home. I have a lot of like sparkling water or sparkling tea that I really, really like. Um, now if it's a special occasion we will go out, and a lot of places just have really good mocktails now. Mm-hmm. I had gone, my in-laws were in town and we had gone out to eat, and I ended up getting some kind of mocktail. It was called The Chauffeur or something. So it was, it was clearly though an NA alcohol, non-alcoholic drink. But it was really good, and it was just kind of refreshing, and I've actually just found being okay with a phony Negroni or, you know, just these kind of fun things, and I really love that restaurants are, are- Doing, y- making mocktails with people like me in mind, it kinda makes it nice for us. The server came up with, uh, a couple glasses of prosecco or something, and she was about to, like, set it down on the table, and she kind of just kinda stopped and was like, "Oh, I guess I should have asked you if you guys drink." And my mind had already processed what was happening, and I'm like, "That's so nice that they're doing this. Like, I'm not even gonna take a sip of this." Yeah. But anyways, I was like, "Oh, actually I don't drink." So she ended up getting me, like, a NA sparkling prosecco thing that was actually really good. I was very happy to drink that. Yeah, it... I've, I've just decided this is okay, and I mean, that's probably some mental work too of, like- Mm-hmm not, you know, not being like, "Oh, look at this. I, I don't get to have fun. I don't get to have the red wine. I don't get to..." You know? But just being like, "You know, the sparkling stuff is my favorite, and this is a really good alternative, and I'm very happy with this." Just making up your mind you're gonna be happy can go a really long way too. Yeah. I am so glad that you mentioned all of that, because that was another question. Did you substitute with anything else? And you can go out... There's so many options. Yeah. Like, when I stopped drinking- Mm-hmm ... it was O'Doul's, and I was happy about it, and that was it. But, or Shirley Temples- ... or something like that. Yeah. But there's some very nice drinks, like mocktails and things, that they have at restaurants. I love the name The Chauffeur. That's just- I know, right? ... bold. I love that. Adorable. Yes. And I just think that it's so great that there's so many different options now. It was s- really cool, I was at my husband's Christmas party this year, and usually I just order, you know, like, a sparkling water with, like, a twist of lime and some cranberry juice in it, 'cause they don't really have- Mm like, a mocktail drink. But this year, they had a signature cocktail and a signature mocktail, and it was like a- Nice ... a, a martini, espresso martini type of thing. But they had a- Ooh ... mocktail version of it. And I was so excited to try it. I was like, "This is so fun." And then the lady next to me was sitting, and she had the cocktail, and I had the mocktail. We were just kind of comparing them. But even the bartender, he was so excited to make it, 'cause usually I get a little kickback sometimes when I'm at events and I order NA, because I'll ask for something and they'll be like, "Oh, we don't have that here," and, you know, 'cause they have those little stands. But he was like, "I'm so glad you ordered this," and he was opening, like, a new thing of non-alcohol spirits and, and all this stuff. And so he's like, "Come back and tell me how you liked it, and I can make you another one." So it can be so fun. It can be- Mm-hmm ... really exciting. And you never know- Who else you're going to inspire with what you're doing, not by making a show of it, not by anything. It could just be somebody else who's questioning, like, "Do I need that second glass of wine, or do I want to drink tonight?" And then they see somebody who's not, and they're happy about it, and joyful even, and not downtrodden. And I think of the people, well, in the Bible when they talk about when you're fasting, you don't wanna look like you're fasting. It's like when you're not drinking alcohol, people are looking at you like, "Is she really having fun? She can't really be having fun." And then you're like, "No, seriously, this is really fun, and I'm gonna wake up the next morning and I'm gonna feel amazing." I know, right? I'm gonna have even more fun the next morning. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I, I personally got a thrill out of, like, just saying no, and then people that know me asking a question about it. And then it was just a great way for me to, like, tell them what God's doing, you know? It was just kind of a natural opening to glorify God in that moment. Yeah. Absolutely, because I think so many times we think we have to do it on our own. And you don't have to get, like, the word, like what you got, you know, that very tangible, "Abby, can you lay this down" type of, you know, word to invite Jesus into your journey. Because we are given, at the time of our baptism, spiritual gifts that equip us, that strengthen us, that nourish us, that help us down the road. And as we take those steps, we take that action, the Lord just pours forth His graces. And that's what He did with you, Abby, with your obedience, with your yes. That's what He's done for me in my life and through my alcohol freedom journey. And just for anyone who's listening, don't be afraid to bring what you're struggling with to the Lord, 'cause He already knows, so you're not hiding anything from Him. The other thing I just wanna touch on, and this doesn't have to do with Abby's story, but just other women that come to me. If you haven't gone to the Sacrament of Reconciliation because of your drinking, because you're so, you're feeling so much shame around your drinking, go. Go to Reconciliation. Bring it to the Lord so that He can give you those merciful graces that you get through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. And you don't have to be perfect. Just working on it is enough. Just knowing that you're not happy with where you're at right now- is enough, and the Lord will work with that, and he will strengthen you all along the way. No, I just felt like I, I needed to say that, but, but definitely go. I can't tell you how many times I had to go to confession for that- Yeah thing too, and I mean, eventually, in God's timing, it- Yeah ... it happened, so yeah, definitely don't lose- Yeah ... don't lose heart. Yes. Thank you for saying that, 'cause it's true. We, and, and sometimes w- as women too, we think, "Oh, if I have to confess the same sin over and over again, it must not mean... It must mean that I'm not really contrite, that I don't really... I'm not really sorry," but that's not true, because you're still trying. Mm-hmm. How many of us confess the same sin all the time? We do, but for whatever reason- All the time ... when it comes to alcohol and certain vices, we can just feel really discouraged, and like, "Oh, great, I'm bringing this, bringing this up again." And the Lord is not condemning. The Lord is not... You know, He's just so happy you're there and wants- Mm ... to give you the grace that you need to just take that next right step, whatever that, that is for you. He's not asking for perfection, but He, He does want your action so that He can work with you on it. Mm. But yeah. He, He'll meet us where we are. Yes. Yeah. So Abby, you came to me. So you found me, I don't know how exactly. How did you find me? Was it through De- Denise Jelinek? I think it was, yeah. Yeah, so for those of you who don't know, Denise Jelinek is a friend of the program. I have lots of different podcast episodes with her. She's a food freedom coach. She's great. But I was running a Lenten program, Freedom 46, and Abby joined that program. She was... had some, quite a bit of sobriety under her belt when she joined the program to journey with us through Lent. So can you talk a little bit about accountability in general, like what has helped you, and then why you decided to join that program and continue with us in the Sacred Sobriety Lab, even though you have, like, 232 days now? Actually, now that I think about it, I think it was actually Advent. I think it went back a little further. Oh, was it? I think it was even- Oh, yeah, so you've been with me even longer. Yeah. Yeah. So I had initially joined, like, a more kinda secular group, and it was fine, but it wasn't my vibe. It didn't... It just didn't work. It was just there wasn't really coaching. There was, I don't know, just- Fucking, I mean, we're, I can't even describe it, but it was very secular, and it just, it, it didn't fit me very well. I definitely needed something that was more, more structured, more coaching-based. Also just more Catholic. I needed that faith element in there, 'cause that was woven very deeply in my story. So yeah, it's, it's been wonderful. I really like this group, obviously because it's Catholic based, and the coach and the women, they are... We have the same worldview. So, you know, when you're talking about con- going to confession about drinking alcohol, I know exactly what you're talking about- Mm-hmm ... and why you're saying that. And so do, does everyone else here. Also, I really love that it's kind of a smaller group, and whenever there are coaching calls, everybody on that call gets an opportunity to talk and get coaching feedback too. That's been really a great, a great part about this. That was probably my favorite part about this one. Thank you so much. It's been so wonderful to have you in the group, and I think that you're a great example of somebody who... You know, sometimes, and I've done it before, so this, I am not throwing shade on anybody here, but I've joined groups before where I don't fully participate, and then I don't get the full experience. And by fully participate, I don't mean like you're there in the Slack group every day and showing up to every single coaching call, but you are... You do three things. You do show up in Slack when you can, and you- Mm-hmm ... are an encouragement to other women, so other women who may not be as far along as you, you are there as an encouragement. And then also just sharing where you're at and, you know, the things that helped you or thing- anything that's been hard. Just sharing that in a community is so beneficial, and you do that so well on our group coaching calls, 'cause you come to quite a few of those, and I always appreciate having you there and sharing as well. And I think that the blessing of having, like you said, having a community where we are like-minded, where we share the same faith, is that we can openly discuss our faith and the sacraments and saints and, and all of those things, and everybody knows, you know, what we're talking about. I also think that it's so important to have that group coaching community, because I've been on so many calls where we've had women who are, like, brand new, to women like you, who have a lot more time under their belt, and there's something to learn from every single person. And even as you hear someone else get coached, you might hear something that maybe you're struggling with or maybe- you were struggling with, but you didn't really know how to articulate, or you get an idea of how to handle a situation. And, you know, I just think the Lord uses that all for His glory and for the benefit of all the women there. So I thank you so much for being part of our community, such an active part of our community as well. Okay, one more thing before we close. So I just was hoping that you could share what has this season done in your life? I know that you've made some major decisions, and I'd love to, for you to share what God opened up when alcohol was removed, when that chatter stopped just following after you all the time. Yeah. So the interesting thing is, once I got the alcohol out, I could hear God's voice so much more clearly. Let's see, I started, I got a spiritual director, and that has been an amazing help. I also looked around my life, and I realized that homeschooling my kids just was not working for my family anymore, and it was, it was really hard to be both mom and teacher. My husband and I made the decision to put them into Catholic school, and they have just completely thrived there. They love it. I am also, I'm a- actually going back to school myself. I have always wanted to be a nurse ever since I was in high school, and that never went away, and I think God has told me that now is the time to do that, and I'm very excited about this. St. Thérèse of Lisieux actually showed up on this journey. This is so cool. So I kind of, this path, I kind of vi- envisioned it as, like, the little way, so I naturally just thought of her. And I had to take a knowledge assessment, because I'm, I'm starting community college next month, um, and I had to take a knowledge assessment. And on the English portion of this knowledge assessment, it was, um, uh, which sentence is the correct one, A, B, C, or D? And one of the options was, "Therese does small things with love." Oh. I kid you not. That's so cool. And, and yeah, any one Catholic knows her saying, um, "Do small things with great love." Mm-hmm. So I kind of felt like that was, like, a little wink from God, a little, you know, "I see you, I'm here with you." So, um, it, that, that, this has been amazing, and I truly believe that all of this has come out of just not drinking and being able to hear Him better. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad that you shared that. Yeah, and it kind of goes back to what you said in the beginning when God said, "Can you give this up and follow me?" Mm-hmm. Right? And now it's, you're kind of seeing that path. 'Cause sometimes we don't know what that's gonna look like. We're like, "Okay, but if I let this go-" Mm-hmm ... w- what are you gonna do? How are you gonna fill that void? And I think that you've just beautifully said once that chatter stopped, and that you were able to free yourself and untangle yourself from alcohol, that's when God could speak to you, and you could actually hear him even more clearly, and follow that. Mm-hmm. That is so exciting, Abby. Congratulations. It is. I'm so excited for you. And that's only, that's only not quite eight months in hindsight of- Yeah ... what has happened, and I think it's just kind of amazing to look back and see over that short period of time exactly- Yeah ... you know, how much has changed, and how much I've grown, and how much, um, yeah, how much God has done, you know? Mm-hmm. Oh, amen. Amen. Mm-hmm. He's using you, Abby, and you're doing great work. So- Thank you ... well, thank you so much for, oh gosh, just honoring us by sharing your story, and the encouragement you are not just to the women in the lab, but now to everyone who's listening to my podcast. And I just really appreciate your openness and your willingness, and I just know God has even more amazing things in store for you, Abby. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, and he has amazing things in store for you, too. Well, that does it for this episode of the Catholic Sobriety Podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode, and I would invite you to share it with a friend who might also get value from it as well. And make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing. I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach, and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer, visit my website, thecatholicsobrietycoach.com. Follow me on Instagram at the Catholic Sobriety Coach. I look forward to speaking to you next time. And remember, I am here for you. I am praying for you. You are not alone.