Introduction to Catholic Sobriety Podcast

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast , the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives , women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason . I am your host , christi Walker . I'm a wife , mom and a joy-filled Catholic , and I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach , and I am so glad you're here . Welcome to the podcast . Today I'm so excited because today I have a guest . I have Kathy Jo Ling . She is a wife , mom , grandmother and practicing Catholic Professionally . She is a certified life coach , public speaker and host of the Unplanned Joyful Life podcast . With a background as a registered nurse , an internationally board-certified lactation consultant and published children's book author , she brings a wealth of experience to her coaching practice .

Speaker 1 1:05

Kathy Jo Lange LLC . She has achieved many personal and professional milestones and is passionate about helping you do the same . Kathy Jo uses positive psychology to help clients reach their professional and personal goals at an accelerated rate . She does this through friendly and engaging conversation , guided reflection and deliberate goal setting . She believes consistent accountability ensures that you stay on track . Kathy Jo will help you get from where you are to where you want to be , and she will support you every step of the way , and at the end I will have Kathy give us all her information , so you know exactly where to find her . Kathy , jo , thank you so much for being here today .

Speaker 2 1:57

Oh , Christy , you're welcome . Thank you so much for having me .

Speaker 1 2:00

Yeah , so I was super blessed to talk to Kathy Jo last week for her podcast , the Unplanned Joyful Life podcast , and so go over there and check out . I guess it's a four part interview because she and I had so much fun chatting and we just went on forever and then all of a sudden it's like , oh my gosh , how much time has passed . So we had never met before , but I think we really connected and I just wanted to have her here as well . So thank you again for being here .

Speaker 2 2:33

Oh , it's my pleasure .

Speaker 1 2:35

So let's just dive in to the story behind your ministry , because I just think it's so wonderful and so needed . So I would love it if you could just share a bit about how the Unplanned Joyful Life podcast came to be what it is and a little bit about your work as a Catholic speaker and coach .

Speaker 2 2:59

Okay , well , honestly , when I think of how it started and I look back , being on your podcast today and with your podcast being called the Catholic Sobriety Coach , it's so clear to me that the Holy Spirit guides us in everything that we do , as long as we're open to it . And I could see the work being done , probably from before I was born . I was born into a family that struggled with alcoholism and dysfunctionalism and I do believe that part of my unplanned pregnancy was the effects of living in a dysfunctional family and having that longing to be a part of something and feel that love and that unconditional connection to others . And even though my parents loved all of us so much , they struggled in so many ways with some things and it did cause some turbulence in our family . And so , first of all , that is kind of how I feel like my unplanned joyful life was started . That is kind of how I feel like my unplanned joyful life was started . So I met my husband when I was just before I turned 17 . And we started dating just a couple weeks after and it honestly , was kind of like a love at first sight type of connection . So we started dating and we dated for two years and then we actually met in January and then I ended up getting pregnant around that same time . Two years later I had gone before becoming intimate with my husband .

Speaker 2 4:32

I went on birth control a year after , you know , we started dating and was going to be very responsible and planning and , you know , really take care of things . So I didn't have an unplanned pregnancy and really take care of things . So I didn't have an unplanned pregnancy . But the way that the birth control pill affected my body and my emotions was not good . I was crying all the time . I thought maybe it was our relationship . It ended up being the medication or the contraceptive oral contraceptive I was taking . So my husband and I broke up briefly . I went off the pill because I wasn't sexually active , and then I noticed 100% difference in how I was taking . So my husband and I broke up briefly . I went off the pill because I wasn't sexually active , and then I noticed a hundred percent difference in how I was feeling . So when we reconnected I did not go back on the pill and I became pregnant .

Speaker 2 5:13

So so I just like to see that , because sometimes people think when there's an unplanned pregnancy , the mom is irresponsible or doesn't know that you can go on the pill or you condom , you know , and that was my situation at that time . So fortunately , my family was very much open and accepting of unplanned pregnancies . I had a brother who passed . He had a heart defect and he died when he was 18 months old , and my family had been through a lot and I think that they knew the importance and the joy and the significance of life . So I'm super grateful for that and so it was never something that I questioned . I remember becoming intimate with my husband and knowing that I would not do that unless I really felt like I could see myself with him the rest of my life , because I didn't believe just , you know , casual sex or things like that . So you know , it was a struggle in the beginning and we got married three months after pregnancy and we had our son Stephen . So we got married in April , we had Stephen in October and I had like like the perfect pregnancy . But six weeks after Stephen was born I ended up having to go into the hospital for a severe postpartum depression . So that was devastating and because I got the help that I needed . Even though it was extremely severe ,

Kathy Jo's Unplanned Pregnancy Journey

Speaker 2 6:42

it was treated and I was able to go home and I recovered fairly quickly . So you know , sometimes people suffer depression and they don't get help and maybe sometimes they even struggle getting the right help and it can last a year or two years . It can last their whole life long and although mine was extremely severe , it was taken care of within a few weeks and I was able to go back and take care of it . That being said , I struggled with the guilt and shame of that event . Having to leave my newborn was very hard and , wanting to be the best mom and wife that I could be and knowing that that happened , I struggled with that and I saw how my husband responded to that me being in the hospital . He came and he worked , he went to school , he came and visited me every day . He showed me so much unconditional love that I felt like I never really experienced in that way before . And when I came home , I asked him how he got through it and he said that his mom just told him to keep his faith . And it was such a simple statement , but it was so profound at the same time . Because we had both grown up Catholic , we both went to Catholic grammar schools , catholic high schools . I eventually graduated from a Catholic college after that , but my family did not practice our faith and I was able to see his family practice it together as a family every week and I could feel the stability in their home that I didn't experience in my own home .

Speaker 2 8:14

I was putting all these things together and trying to figure out how could this , how could this depression or this breakdown never happen to me again ? What could I do that could ? I knew that was nothing to guarantee that it could never happen again , because I know that depression is common and there are people that suffer with it and then they have , you know , different periods in their life when it comes back or different situations , and but I really did not want to ever be in that position again . I met a woman in the hospital who kind of was a frequent flyer and she had four or five kids and every so often she just went and got herself admitted and treated . And I think I met that woman for a reason because I didn't want that to be my normal . I didn't want to be leaving my family like that . So when my husband said this , I knew that it was . I knew that he was speaking from his heart . When he said about the faith , it wasn't just something that he was just flippantly saying , and so I started to . I wanted what he had like , I wanted the stability that he had , so I started really searching and delving into my faith . I did end up going to counseling after I was discharged home , which helped me , and I was on medication till maybe six months after I was discharged . I've never been on any medication since then . It has been 36 years and I've never suffered a depression , you know , since then .

Speaker 2 9:39

But what happened was it probably took me two years to come to terms with the whole crisis and I was able to take care of my son . I was able to love him and be present with him . But inside I felt that what happened to me was because I was less than other people , that I didn't have what other people had , or I was weak . And so it was delving into my faith that I started to really listen to what the readings were all about , listen to the prayers that we were reciting in church . Look at all the images . The Blessed Mother was a big image for me at that time , because I needed to look to a mother who had that unconditional love for me and was going to be an example for me , seeing Jesus on the cross and feeling like we're the only ones that are suffering . There's no way you can do that . You can't look at Jesus and think that he doesn't understand . He was through the worst , you know .

Speaker 2 10:33

And so around the two-year period I was starting to feel , I think , as I was coming closer to really establishing and accepting the faith , I was having a lot of stirrings , which I think partly were the Holy Spirit and partly maybe the adversary trying to fight my growth , you know . So I had a couple of times where I was very , very anxious and I went out for a walk and the first time I went for the walk I met , I ended up at the church and I talked to a priest there , father Joe Regliano , and I told him , you know , what I was experiencing and he just really listened and encouraged me and comforted me and prayed with me and kind of sent me on my way and I felt better . But maybe like a week or so , the same thing happened and I went back again and he was there again , which is pretty uncommon , you know . He was right there in the church when I came in and the church was empty besides me and him . And so I talked to him again

Faith Journey Through Postpartum Depression

Speaker 2 11:32

and I was concerned with what people thought of me , that people looked down on me and that I was weaker and I was less than other people .

Speaker 2 11:41

And he said you are carrying this on yourself , you are allowing this burden to make you feel this way and you need to let Jesus take this from you . And so he encouraged me to look at the cross , look at Jesus on the cross . And he embraced me in a way that was so , you know , men are stronger than we are , so when they give us a hug , it's just different , you know , than even a really great hug from a female . Isn't like a hug , you know , from a man who had . They're just stronger . And so he hugged me and he said to me Kathy , you need to let Jesus take this from you , let him take this from you . And he just kind of kept repeating it and I felt this release within me and it was almost like I could feel this tension and this angst leave my body . And I remember , after him hugging me , me feeling like wow , and then , you know , we said goodbye and I went to leave the church and when I left the church , I knew that I was changed , like I knew that whatever happened between us , that that guilt and shame was gone and it really truly was like it was . I still think of that time and that was a miracle that that that was removed from me .

Speaker 2 13:02

And so I just want to share that story , because that is the , ultimately , the reason why I want to serve younger moms and because they do , they are more vulnerable for some things happening and they might even have been more vulnerable to becoming pregnant unplanned , but that doesn't mean that their pregnancy isn't valuable and it doesn't mean that the life that they have is and it doesn't mean that they life that they have is . It doesn't mean that they can't live a full and happy life and so , yeah , so from that moment on my life , my faith has been a huge part of my life , and I would kind of be aware of how long time has gone and thinking , will I ever experience that kind of depression again ? And like a year would go by and I would think , oh , wow , like a year went by and I'm still doing okay , you know . And then five years , wow , like five years , I'm like I'm doing you know what I mean Like it truly , as time would go by , I would realize that like I really truly have been saved . And so I started writing a memoir and I share my diagnosis , treatment , recovery and healing , and the healing part to me is the faith aspect of it . And so I started picturing chapters when I would look back at like how long it had been since I suffered that depression and all of a sudden , like different chapter titles started coming to my mind about like a book that I would write about it , and I mentioned it to my husband and he was very supportive , open to it . And so in my later 30s , I wrote the majority of a memoir . It still is not published yet . When the actual speaking part of it came , you asked me about the speaking and the podcast .

Speaker 2 14:41

I became a internationally board certified lactation consultant in 2012 . And in 2014 , I was asked by my management team at the hospital I worked at to go to a teach the trainers program in Williamsport , pennsylvania , and I worked with other women who were going to have to go back and teach their coworkers and anyone in contact with breastfeeding moms , to try and really promote and support breastfeeding in the women who are choosing breastfeeding , that they got the care that they needed . And so this was the first time that I really had to get up and speak in front of people . I always cowered from speaking in front of people when I was in high school . I would pretend like I was sick for like two weeks straight if I had to , in order to like not speak in public . And I had one teacher that was like no , you're not going to get away with it . So the first day I came back to school she said , okay , kathy's going to do her talk , because she never did her talk . And she gave me an A plus and said it was very natural , I know . And so I remember that . And so I went to do this talk . I had to . Each of us had to teach a topic to the other women in the course in Williamsport and I had to teach on marketing and how marketing can sometimes interfere with marketing of formula , can sometimes interfere with the breast milk and the breastfeeding process .

Speaker 2 16:13

But as I was preparing for it and I read from Jesus Calling every day , and in the book she refers to certain scripture , and I could tell that the night before it was time for me to do my talk . I had a certain amount of it planned , but I wanted it to be more like a conversation with the audience . I got to a certain point and it was almost like the energy heightened and then it was just like very clear . Like then I kind of almost like went blank and it was almost like I felt like God was , or the Holy Spirit was , telling me you're done now . You know , trust me and and we're going to do this together , you know . So I went and did it and I did a presentation and then I opened up conversation and then I did the scavenger hunt at the end and I again I got really great feedback from the people there and it was different . I felt like I was meant to be sharing myself with the people in the audience .

Speaker 2 17:08

So I started after that happened , I started finding and creating opportunities to speak publicly just to get good at it . You know , I took a course through our Catholic health system that I worked at . I just researched online how to become a better speaker . I would speak at confirmation classes , discipleship programs , anywhere that anybody would listen to me , I would you know I would speak . And I then became certified as a speaker through Maxwell Leadership , which was started by John Maxwell , and when it was time for me to do my certification , which is a three-day it's either in person or online , but you have to be engaged online the whole three days and you do have to present to your table , which is maybe 12 people , and because I did it online , I presented to 12 people that basically were all over the world . You know other people that were being certified at the same time and when I went through this program , I was introduced to coaching and I realized that that's me , like I've always loved people , I've always wanted to support people , I've always loved psychology , but I feel like a therapist who hears a lot of negative details and painful details of people's trauma .

Speaker 2 18:30

I knew at this point that was not me . Like I'm very sensitive to people's thoughts and feelings and words and so I needed to . When I saw coaching use positive psychology and helps to move people forward and toward positive goals , I was like that's me , you know . So I ended up going through the certification process for that and I got . As soon as I was certified , I got my first coaching client and it's been over three years and I've never been without coaching clients . I just know that that's what God has called me to do . Just know that that's what God has called me to do .

Speaker 2 19:11

But then what happened was I was introduced to a program on podcasting and it is led by Stephanie Gass and her program is called Online Business for Christian Women , and so I went through her program where she offers Clarify your Calling , which teaches us like what do we want to ? Who are we going to serve through our podcast ? The second part is Podcast Pro University , which taught me all the nuts and bolts and every little thing there is that comes with podcasting . And you have to remember , I was a nurse , so my specialty was not technology in any way , so my specialty was not technology in any way . And then this last program I've been doing is called Podcast to Profit , and that is really just bringing together all my programs and scaling my business .

Speaker 2 19:52

So , yeah , so when I was doing Clarify my Calling or Clarify your Calling , I actually felt like I really love serving everyone . I actually felt like I really love serving everyone . I love coaching the young , the old , male , female , gay , straight . Like , honestly , I feel like God has called me just to be present and to serve whoever it is that he brings in front of me . So when I was doing Clarify your Calling , it was really hard for me to pinpoint the a certain person that I wanted to serve . But I went through the exercises like multiple times and because of my personal and professional background , because of my gifts and skills , my hardships and my triumphs , it was very clear that I was meant to serve younger moms who have stepped into motherhood after experiencing an unplanned pregnancy , and really kind of to be an advocate for them . You know , serve them but also advocate for them and just give them a voice . So I know that was a very long answer but yeah , that's kind of how I came to serve the younger , younger Christian mamas .

Speaker 1 21:04

That's amazing . That's such an awesome story . I loved all of it . I'm going to unpack a little bit of it , but it's just the main thing that I just get out of . It is like we go through different things , right , and so God allows certain things to happen , but based on our choices or how it's going to impact other people in the future . And I just see , in just you telling your story , how he was just kind of equipping you and preparing you for what you do now and what you'll do beyond .

Speaker 1 21:40

And so when you were talking about , like you know , having that postpartum depression , it is so I know moms that have had that and I did not experience that , but I know moms that have had it and you're right , there's so much shame attached to it and , like the oh , I wish I would have been there for this , that and the other . And we it's such a natural thing , right that mom guilt . And I'm sure the women that you work with , like the young moms , feel that in a way too , like , oh , I should have been better prepared or oh , I shouldn't have done this , that . Not that they would ever want to take away the fact that they are a mother now , but maybe you know the steps could have been different , or you know , or maybe it came about , like you said , very traumatically and it isn't something that they really had a choice in . But yet here they are as mothers and we can't go back . And I mean we can go back and reflect on where we were and how we felt and that helps us help others , but we can't go back and change it . And so what I've found in my life is I have there's shame , there's regret , there's , you know , all of that in my story .

Speaker 1 22:58

But the way that I reconcile that and the way that I move forward in a positive way is to say , okay , how can I take this and use it for good ? How can I take this and use it to help somebody else , encourage them , give them hope ? You know whatever it is . And then , when you were talking about just seeing your background , your home life and how it was dysfunctional , I think , is the word that you use and then seeing your husband's family and the stability there and being like , oh , I think , like we have that desire on our heart , but then when we see it in action , it makes it so that it's like that could be possible for me , like , no matter what happened in the past , I feel like this could be possible , and you seem like a person that just figures things out , like you figured out podcasting .

Speaker 1 23:56

You figured out how to become a certified lactation specialist . You're a figure outer , and I think that's why we resonate with one another . So much is because of that positivity , that how are we going to fix this or or make this work or go where God is calling us to go , and sometimes it's that deficit in our life that is actually the blessing , because it equips us to move forward , right , yeah .

Speaker 2 24:27

Yeah , and I just want to share a couple of things . The pregnancy itself was never something that I was ashamed of or would look back and do differently . I feel more sorrow for people that choose not to have their babies , and I think a misconception with unplanned pregnancies is like that poor person . They have ruined their lives , their poor child , and I think that is what upsets younger moms the most is being treated differently or being looked down on , and I have seen it . I have been on both ends of it . People that know me as an adult don't always know that I was a younger mom . I hear what people say and I've seen it . So I think that if I was going to say anything to advocate for younger moms , it's that they know what their life is and the value that they have in their child and in their family , no matter what their hardships are . The wide majority of women , I will say , will never regret their children ever . I truly believe that , and so I just like wanted to make that part of it clear .

Speaker 2 25:38

And another thing I wanted to mention is even growing up , when I was younger , I was always aware of my friends' homes and their families and the stability that I saw in their lives and so I think that when it happened with my husband it's different , because your friends don't understand . You know , I have one friend that remembered being at my house and something happening and she said my face looked like a balloon that had the air let out of it . One of the things that happened within our home that other people didn't usually see happened and she saw it and she heard it and it was very . It was comforting to know that she knew that this was years later as adults that she told me that . But I always was aware of , like my friends and their relationships , like with their moms or dads , or how the atmosphere in their home was . I was always very sensitive to it and I think my sensitivity came from having to be overly sensitive in my but I guess those two things I kind of wanted to mention .

Speaker 1 26:43

I am so glad that you mentioned that because it is a real thing and I think that is good for those of us on the outside to recognize and say you know , build these women up , be supportive , be encouraging , because they are choosing this life and they're happy about it . Like you said , you never regret it . It's everything in life . We just there's things that are difficult , but they're worth it right and being like .

Speaker 2 27:12

Right now I'm 56 years old and I can look back on my life and say that truly , like , truly , the greatest thing that ever happened to me was having my children and my husband and creating the life that we have together , and and that's something I will never , ever regret or second guess or anything Like I can't imagine my life without them , and I know that not only was my son a gift , but he blessed us . His light has blessed our family , you know . So , yeah , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 27:45

Yeah , and they teach us things right . They teach us things about ourselves . We grow together , especially , you know , as we're there growing . We're growing too and we're learning things and it's just a beautiful thing

Coaching vs. Counseling Approaches

Speaker 1 28:12

and we talked about this when we had our other conversation is the positivity ? Like I'm the same way .

Speaker 1 28:15

I always thought I would be a counselor or do something , you know , be a therapist , and it just never stuck with me . But when I discovered coaching , it was like , oh , we get to go from here and move forward and there's so much value in counseling and therapy and trauma counseling and all of that . It's so , so important . But I think the best thing is that counseling and coaching can actually go hand in hand . Like I have clients that work with both and it's been very effective for them . Or sometimes people work with a counselor first because they're not really in a place for coaching yet , and then we , you know , and then they do coaching later and that's that's great too . So there's definitely a place for both . But I'm also of that personality where it's that empathy . It can be a lot for me to . I just take it on and it's .

Speaker 2 29:06

And I that's too much .

Speaker 1 29:07

With coaching it's like , okay , let's dig in . Where are we ?

Speaker 2 29:11

going to go , and this is like with my coaching . I do the same as you . I have clients that have come to me after counseling . They sometimes come simultaneously while they're coaching or counseling , and then sometimes I refer them to counseling If I start to feel that that's something that's going to move them forward . I'm not afraid to do that either . But one thing I do really love to do and I think it's so important is make sure that people and they feel comfortable bringing up or mentioning maybe trauma or difficulty they've been through , because that's a part of who they are . I always make sure that they feel comfortable doing that and I take that into account .

Speaker 1 29:51

Yes , definitely the past is part of their experience and I've done the same thing where I've referred someone to counseling because it's actually what's keeping them stuck from moving forward . And then once they can work through that and start to heal that , then they can , then they're in a place for that . But yeah , certainly it does get brought up . It's not like don't ever mention anything .

Speaker 2 30:15

It's very important to know One of the things I noticed about myself when I was going to counseling . At one point I started to become dependent on the counselor and I was afraid . I started to yeah , I don't know how else to say it , but I was becoming dependent on her and I was afraid . It was almost like taking your first steps for the first time , you know , like a baby learning how to walk , and so that was one thing I remembered when I started coaching . And then another thing was that I used to do a lot of journaling and it was a place where I could vent and write like things that were upsetting me , and so I never liked to go back and read it because it was so negative , you know . And then I started doing a gratitude journal and I could feel like a shift in my thinking , started writing the memoir .

Speaker 2 31:10

A friend told me that when you can , when you're a victim of something and you can take it and make use of it , then you are no longer a victim , and I think that coaching is . That is what's so beautiful about coaching . You know whether you've been in rehab and have had to stop drinking or using drugs or whatever it is you're dealing with , or you've been in the hospital for mental health purposes , or you finally is you're dealing with or you've been in the hospital for mental health purposes , or you finally got your mental health stabilized but you don't have a lot of good friends . You've been kind of . Coaching helps you create a positive future and a life for yourself , and so I think that's what I love about coaching so much and following up after and alongside counseling . Either way , I think that it gives people like framework for their future and for a happy future , like we don't have to live in the past , we don't have to beat ourselves up and feel less than or guilty or whatever . Yeah , so I just that that's what I wanted to share .

Speaker 1 33:09

Yeah , and I I'm glad you did because that does . That is a real thing , that happens , and also in the recovery world . That happens with people with AA , like if they're at AA , pretty soon they become dependent on it and they're afraid of what will happen when they leave AA . So that's something that really does happen . And I think you hit the nail on the head , or alluded to it is , with coaching . It's like we're helping . It's kind of like that teenage stage right when there's like that breaking away . I always tell people the point of coaching isn't to be coached forever , it's to learn how to coach yourself , and so we give you these tools and then , once you're ready , then you can kind of go on your own . That doesn't mean like I've had coaches for different things , yeah , so it doesn't mean you'll never have a coach , but I've learned how to coach myself in different aspects of my life , and I would say also that people don't even have to be in a place of real need to come to coaching .

Speaker 2 34:09

Like I have coaching clients that are writing and publishing books , that are becoming better speakers , that are improving their health , you know . So you don't have to have had a depression , you know , been to rehab or anything like that . You can just be at a stage in your life where you feel like God's calling you to do something more , and having a coach or somebody to work alongside you is just going to make it happen more less , I would say . Alongside you is just going to make it happen more less , I would say uneventfully , or like less struggles and move you forward faster is what I would say . I don't know if you would agree with that .

Speaker 1 34:41

Yeah , it for sure helps you ignite that and go forward a lot quicker Because , like us , you can figure it out on your own . But it takes a long time right . It's taken us years . Well , you know , christy honestly .

Speaker 2 34:54

Another thing I thought about when you were just talking . You had mentioned something about us kind of making things happen or we're very much like goats . I would say that , like you know , on the topic of alcohol , I have an occasional glass of wine . Like I can go months without a drink of wine , or if I do have one , I notice the second glass . It doesn't taste as good or it doesn't settle with me . So usually it's one glass of beer , one beer , I'm sorry . One glass of wine , maybe one beer once a month , or it could be a couple of days in a row , like if we're camping , but then not again for like months , you know .

Speaker 2 35:35

So I am not dependent on alcohol and when I , when my first son was young , there was a time that I did go out with my husband and friends and the next day I had gotten up and I felt awful . I felt depressed and tired and nauseous and it made me feel terrible that I didn't have the energy to really care for him the way that I should have felt . And , having been through the depression and knowing like how precious our minds are , I was just like I never want to be like that . I never want to allow something to interfere with my clarity or like the care that I'm giving him . And I think , because my life has not evolved around alcohol , I've always been a very like self-learning , forward moving , which goes along with our coaching , and I would think that's probably similar to you .

Speaker 2 36:24

Do you understand what I'm saying there with the connection of not drinking and , you know , not having alcohol be something that is sustaining us or comforting us ? Because when you don't have a drug to comfort

Faith's Role in Coaching Practice

Speaker 2 36:38

you , you have to figure out how to comfort yourself or you have to you deal with it . So when I went through that depression , I say that that was one of the best , one of the worst and best things that happened to me at that time , because it brought me to my knees and I had to look at the truth and in looking at the truth , made me realize I needed God . And so somebody could say something about me and it could be very hurtful , but chances are I already know that about myself . If it's true , if it's something I'm not good at or something that's a weakness of mine or somebody you know , if somebody says it to me , yeah , it's going to hurt me , that you wanted to hurt me , but I'm so self-aware that there's not much that you can say to me , that you're going to shock me .

Speaker 1 37:23

Yes , I've already said it to myself , I've already come to try . I don't need you to say it to me . Yeah , no , I do agree with you . You , I think , when I look at the times when I was drinking and everything like all my energy was put into that , like how am I gonna get it ? When am I gonna have it ? When am I ? You know all of those things . So when we are consumed by and it can be alcohol , it could be food , it could be shopping , it could be scrolling , it could be anything , it could be shopping , it could be scrolling , it could be anything really it just numbs us , first of all , and it also takes a lot of our mental clarity . And I know , and I'll see it even , like in my life now , if I get a little bit off track and maybe I'm on social media too much , I'm like I need to take that off because it's taking away from my creative energy , it's taking away from me communicating with God and saying , like , what do you want me to do ?

Speaker 2 38:17

next .

Speaker 1 38:19

And so , yeah , that is such a freedom when you can let go of whatever that is , whatever those strongholds are that are keeping you bad . And you had mentioned earlier about , like , as you were kind of coming into the coming to faith , how you could feel that I can . I had this too . Like you have this fire , this desire to like go and get it , but then there's that , the enemy , like kind of knocking you down a little bit and I experienced panic attacks and miraculously , I had never had them before that and I have thankfully never had them before that and I have thankfully never had them after that .

Speaker 1 38:55

But it was when my husband was going through RCIA and we were coming back to faith and going to church regularly and everything . So , just know , like , when you're doing that good thing , whatever that is , when you're moving forward and getting closer to the Lord and really stepping into the woman that you know God has called you to be , you will feel , you will face pushback and it can come in the form of fear of man , like you talked about . What are people going to think about me ? Or whatever it is , or it can it can be anxiety that creeps up in us because of you know , whatever we're thinking , you know some of that comes from the enemy and some of it comes from us , right ?

Speaker 2 39:40

yeah , can be like and once you know it , it's so freeing because , yeah , I love the one scripture by saint paul that says I , we are pressed at every side , but we do not fall . I don't have this specific wording to it . Sometimes , when I feel like things are coming at me at every end , like it might be my husband and I might be having some tension , and then something happens with my mom , and then something stressful at work , and it feels like everything is coming at you at once , and then I'm just like , okay , the devil loves , he loves for us to be afraid or feel pressured or whatever . And it's almost like , once you know it , like you , it just changes you , you know , it gives you more control over your life and over your faith .

Speaker 1 40:30

And , yeah , oh for sure , Especially and , like you said , once you have that awareness around it , it definitely is helpful for that . So , because we've talked about faith a lot , I would love to know both how your Catholic faith influences the way you coach and support others and any favorite scriptures or practices that you use in your work .

Speaker 2 40:54

Yeah , I would say that my Catholic faith shapes everything that I do , so I would say that there's not any part of my life that it's not . It's funny because when I started the Unplanned Joyful Life , the four pillars were embracing your Catholic faith self-care , healthy home , environment and community involvement . When it comes down to it , our Catholic faith encourages all of those things , and so I just yeah , I feel like it affects me in every way when it comes to my coaching practice . I have clients that are Catholic and I have clients that are not , but I always ask them . They might be Catholic but not practicing , and so I always make sure to ask them if they're okay , if that is something that I use as options when we're looking at different ways of moving forward , and I've never had anybody say no . They always they almost seem happily yes , like if you can bring that in , that's great , you know . So I always bring that in , and sometimes it's referring to scripture . Sometimes I'll share like a speaker or a podcast with them or Christian music that I think might be inspiring to them . But I would say the way that it affects my coaching the most is that it helps me to be present 100% with them because I feel that my needs are cared for and because I believe that the Holy Spirit is with me , and by going to church regularly , hearing scripture , going to confession , I feel like my needs are met . And so it's important , when you want to be there for somebody else , that your needs are met , because you can't go there wanting or needing something from those people . You are there for them , period , you know . So I would say , first of all , that is one way that it affects , I would say that encouraging forgiveness , I would say empathy , mercy , just the importance of respecting that individual and really listening to them . It's funny because at the end of all my coaching sessions , I have a coaching reflection form I fill out and it asks what did you do well during the session and what can you do better ? And I always have listen .

Speaker 2 43:06

Even if listen is one of the things I did well , it's always something that I need to remind myself to do better , because I truly believe that individuals , the Holy Spirit or their inner genius , like they , know themselves better than anybody , and the best way that I can bring out the best in them is to be present for them and to support them , not in telling them what they should do , but like listening to their words and then I sometimes will reclarify back to them things that they've said to me , so that you know I make sure that we're on the same page , but then they're also hearing it a second time and just really supporting them and loving them through the whole process . One thing I have to do a lot is to bring their successes to their attention . So one of the first questions I ask people every week is what is something that you're grateful for this week and what is a win that you want to acknowledge ? And I love those first two questions because they help the client to look at the positive , because sometimes they might have completed the actions they committed to , but for some reason , they don't realize they did , or maybe they did a little bit , or maybe they didn't , but they had some major crisis happen in their lives . And so one of the things it's funny because I think of we always think of accountability as being that person that we can go back to and say , yes , I did my , I did my exercises or I did my thing , but I always feel like accountability and I think that my faith has helped me . See , this is the accountability of reminding people of the good that's within them .

Speaker 2 44:44

You know , when they come to me and they say I'll say , well , you actually didn't do what you committed to do . Remember , you said you did X , y and Z and they're like do what you committed to do . Remember , you said you did X , y and Z . And they're like , oh yeah , that's right , you know . Or maybe maybe they will say I didn't do anything . But then they tell me like this horrendous thing happened to them and I said , oh my gosh , like I honestly wouldn't expect you have finished it , you know . And then we might talk a little bit about what happened . But then other times I'll even have people very negative , but they've completed everything . And but then other times I'll even have people very negative , but they've completed everything . And I'm like a cheerleader , like I get excited about any success that people have . So I think also like the joy as a Catholic that I have chosen to live in my life , I think that I extend that to my clients and I think that gives them hope of joy and like a happy future , you know .

Speaker 1 45:35

Yeah , I think that's really at the heart of coaching as a practice , and I am sure that there are so many that can resonate with you and be like , yes , that's what I need as a cheerleader , because that's what I always say I try to start , we always start our sessions with wins . What were your wins this week ? And sometimes , like you said it , the wins will turn into things that they didn't do . But then , because I'm a kind of a Pollyanna , my husband it annoys my husband sometimes . But , yeah , I try to do that with my clients too , because even in the , maybe they had a slip or maybe this happened or that happened .

Speaker 1 46:11

There's awareness that happens . There's awareness that happens . There's learning that happens . So I always try to pull out those wins and be like look , you had this and you had this and you had this . And they're like , yeah , oh my gosh , I did . And that really is our job as coaches is , like you said , to listen , to reflect back to them what they're not even actually hearing themselves . Yes , and be like , no , look at what you've done to reflect back to them what they're not even actually hearing themselves . Yes , yes .

Speaker 1 46:34

You know and be like no , look at what you've done .

Speaker 2 46:37

Yeah , I had a client recently who has been walking every morning for an hour and she's been doing great and just really moving forward . And one of the things a couple weeks ago it was my idea like do something nice for yourself , buy yourself something , meet someone for coffee , you know , just whatever it is that you enjoy , do something good for yourself . And I even said buy yourself something , right . And so when we met a couple of weeks later she said I said she said , oh , I didn't do anything , she's like . And then a couple of minutes later in the conversation she's like well , I bought myself a new pair of nice running walking sneakers . I said , well , I bought myself a new pair of nice running walking sneakers . I said you did Like that's you know .

Speaker 2 47:18

And yeah , and I think when people hear the okay to do something good for themselves , that's important because you know we need to know that I mean other things . That I do is really focus on self-care and healthy boundaries . Those are two things that always seem to be in the beginning of whatever we're doing . But in general , I think really being present and supporting and allowing that client to share their personal dreams and ideas is just huge .

Speaker 1 47:47

Yeah , yeah , okay . So now , why don't you go ahead and share your favorite scripture or practices that you use in your work ?

Speaker 2 47:58

Yeah , so a couple of books that I recommend to people . A lot is Boundaries by Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Townsend , and I also recommend Better Than Normal , which is written by Dr Del Archer . So those are books . There's many books that I recommend , but those are just two of them , and they seem to come up a lot , scriptures that I just tend to , and honestly there's probably hundreds of scripture that come to mind , depending on the conversation , but the ones that came to me first are Philippians 4.13, .

Speaker 2 48:29

I can do all things through Christ , who strengthens me , and that is something that my sister-in-law shared with me when I was really starting to come into my faith , and so that is a very special scripture verse for me and very empowering , I think . The next one is Psalm 118 , verse 24 . This is the day the Lord has made . We will rejoice and be glad in it . And that is a verse that my brother shared with me when I was struggling , and I remember when he shared this with me and I thought that's nice , but he doesn't really understand . You know , like this one before I really found my faith and came to terms with it , and I just remember thinking , oh , that's , that's sweet of him , but he just doesn't really know . You know , but he knew , and so I just love that because it's just a reminder that you know we don't have to have this day . The Lord has made that for us , and so what are we going to do with it ? Are we going to be grateful for it and do our best and be our best , or are we going to feel sorry for ourselves for the things that we don't have and wallow ? So I love that .

Speaker 2 49:36

2 Corinthians 12 , verse 9 , and he said to me this is probably the biggest one that I share with people when they're going through a challenging time or they're kind

Powerful Scripture for Difficult Times

Speaker 2 49:47

of down on themselves for their weaknesses . And he said to me my grace is sufficient for you , for my strength is made perfect in weakness . Therefore , most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmity that the power of Christ may rest upon me . And yeah , this scripture to me is really incredible , because it's really in our weakness that it's almost like it ignites Christ's love for us even more . And his mercy was made almost like a puzzle piece for our weakness . So I always say like , no matter how low you go , he will meet us there . And then the last one is the 23rd Psalm and I won't read the whole thing . But the Lord is my shepherd , I shall not want .

Speaker 2 50:32

And when you talked about having panic attacks , I went through a period when I was afraid .

Speaker 2 50:38

When I was coming to really embrace my faith , I was starting to have fear about having another depression and having that kind of overcome me and it was like horrible , like panic attacks , I know , like if there's anybody listening and you know they are horrible .

Speaker 2 50:55

And when I started reading the 23rd Psalm , I started realizing that the valley is only temporary and that we go into the valley and then we come out of the valley of . The panic attack was a fear of something that had not happened yet . Like it was a fear of something that I thought was going to happen , but it probably wasn't going to happen . So I would catch myself right in that , right in that horrible , painful fear , and I would just kind of talk my talk to myself and say this isn't this is the bad thing , the bad thing's not going to happen . You're , this is the bad thing right now and so not going to happen , this is the bad thing right now . And so once I would acknowledge that , then it would kind of dissipate , and it wasn't long after that then I stopped having them all together .

Speaker 1 51:41

So that's what happened to me . I was afraid that something bad was going to happen to me , like while I was home with my boys my twins were like four at the time . It was two years of just being afraid , and what I came to realize later that I didn't recognize then is that the enemy was really getting me not to trust God and his goodness , and so I started clinging to the verse that the Lord , what he said , what his promises are true and what he said would happen would come about . Right .

Speaker 1 52:15

I don't have the verse off the top of my head , but it was something I just kept telling myself that over and over again . And , like you , I'm like nothing bad has happened , Like if you want to freak out when something like that happens , freak out , but it's , you are fine and you just aren't trusting in God's mercy and his care and his providence and all of that .

Speaker 1 52:39

And once I was able to get a hold of that , like it's never happened again . My mom also got me a miraculous medal and I started wearing it every day , and I think that was very helpful too , because I had Mary as just that very powerful intercessor for me , guiding me and guiding us as we were journeying back to the church . But that happens and then I love the thing .

Speaker 1 53:06

I love all those scriptures and I think that they'll sound familiar to so many of us , and what I try to do is tell my clients and pretty much anyone who will listen that we need to speak God's truth over us . So , instead of affirmations , we can make declarations and I learned this from a Bible study Walking with Purpose Bible study that I did where when we impart God's truth over us by speaking these scriptures to us , the ones that are resonating with us , the ones that remind us of God's love and mercy and care for us , that is actually allowing grace to be imparted on us , which is so powerful . So that's why I wanted to know what your scripture verses were and I loved how they came to you , yes , so that's why I wanted to know what your scripture verses were , and I loved like how they came to you .

Speaker 2 53:54

Yeah , yeah , I love it . Yeah , I , it's fun . I didn't realize how much I would be using it in the podcast when I started . I actually thought the podcast would actually tap more into my maternal child nursing background , but in actuality it has been more of the faith , because really the faith affects everything that we do . It's not just one part of our life , it really infiltrates all of it . And yeah , so I think that has been really beautiful . And the people that I have connected with . It's been incredible that people like you and other people I've interviewed on my show . It's just there's such a connection and there are people from all over the country and all over the world that we've never met before .

Speaker 2 54:38

But you know , god is bringing us together and if I was being called to kind of serve people on a larger scale , that's kind of the feeling I got . I was working as a nurse and I no longer felt that that was where I was meant to be . I felt like God was calling me to serve more in the public or community . I saw it more as physical , speaking or working , I don't know how . I really didn't have it pictured any specific way . I just knew that he was calling me to do that , and I know that all of you , all of the other people that are doing similar types of work , I'm sure have felt that same thing . You know I don't know why God's calling me to do this , but I feel like he's calling me to do this . You know , and we hear that on your interview that you do , on my show , also from your part of it .

Speaker 2 55:24

So , yeah and honestly , christy , today I published my 100th episode , which was part one of the interview I did with you , and I can't believe how significant that is , because I do not suffer from alcoholism .

Speaker 2 55:43

I do not . It's not something I feel has infiltrated my home , but I still deal with the effects of alcoholism from my family and I see it in relationships with other people , I see it in my community and it is such an overwhelming deterrent from people finding God and from living their life fully and completely . And so you just took me right back to , like , my childhood and , you know , starting at my dad , who was an alcoholic , my dad's dad and probably generations before that . But yeah , it just I'm so happy that you're doing the work that you're doing and I just think it's so important and so necessary . So , like from now until August 27th . I'm doing a promotion because that's my year anniversary and today's my 100th episode , and I'm excited that your interviews are taking place within that time , because I'm hoping that people will listen and learn about alcohol , and not that you don't always have to like cut it completely out of your life , but that you can create a new habit and new relationships with it , and I just think that what you're doing is incredible .

Speaker 1 56:57

Thank you . Well , it's mutual and I think that what you're doing is so important and needed as well . Speaking for those women who really haven't had a voice in this right , I think a lot of people try to assume what they are feeling or going through or you know what they need , but I think it's so beautiful that you're sharing their stories and sharing what you know in your encouragement and you're such a light . So I appreciate that so much and congratulations . 100 episodes is really a milestone , because it's just like oh my gosh , I've done this a hundred times . How does I know I do that ? So yeah , so I hope people do . Please do go and listen to the unplanned joyful podcast for sure . Um , not just the unplanned joyful life ohing joyful life .

Speaker 1 57:51

Yes , thank you , and I love the joyful because you're so joyful like you just exude joy and it's so wonderful . So just two more things so before we close . One thing I would love is what would you say to a woman who is listening and feels overwhelmed or stuck in her habits or unsure how to begin again ?

Speaker 2 58:13

You know , honestly , I wrote something down that I wanted to share with that person . First of all , I want you to know that I am praying for you and I feel for you . You know it's hard . People are in . There are so many suffering people . I just was on a prayer team the other night where people come and we pray over them and with them , and there's so many people suffering right now . So I want you to know that I'm praying for you and I want you to know that you are not alone and that God is with you . His power is actually ignited by the response to your weakness . Go easy on yourself , reach out for help and take one day . Sometimes it's one hour and sometimes it's one minute at a time . This is the day the Lord has made . We will rejoice and be glad in it . You are not alone and you are going to be okay , that is so beautiful .

Speaker 1 59:07

Thank you so much for that . That gave me goosebumps . So , before we close , you shared about your podcast

Words of Encouragement and Contact Info

Speaker 1 59:15

a little bit , but just let people know , like all the things about you , where they can find you , how they can connect with you and if you have any resources or anything like that .

Speaker 2 59:24

Okay , yeah , definitely , you can find me , if you want to listen to the podcast , at the Unplanned Joyful Life podcast , and that is on like a variety of different . I mean Apple podcast is the most popular , but it's on Podbean , Spotify , iHeartRadio pretty much any one that you can think of . So the Unplanned Joyful Life podcast by Kathy Jo Lange . You can find me on Facebook and I have a personal and professional Facebook page which is Kathy Jo Lange , and then the other one is Kathy Jo Lange LLC , and then I have a community group called Practical Support for the Younger Christian Mom and that has younger moms , but it also has people that support younger moms , and so some of the things we do is we ask people what are they grateful for , once a week and then another time we ask people what do they want to be prayed for , and I share different things . You know on that .

Speaker 2 1:00:25

People can also email me at kathylang716 if they're interested in , or they can message me on Facebook if they're interested in , a one-on-one coaching session . I do offer a free session to anybody that is interested in giving it a try and I don't pressure people to continue . If they want to try one time and they decide , they're definitely going to walk away , you know , with something valuable . You know I've had free session , but yeah , those are things that I offer and I am getting together right now a free download which is a self-assessment . So I don't have that right now on my website , but I will be putting that up soon .

Speaker 1 1:01:03

Okay , perfect . Well , I will have all that information in the show notes so you can connect with Kathy Jo . And yeah , if you want to put that , if you want me to have that assessment link in there too , I can do that as well . All right , so well . Thank you so much , kathy Jo , for being here . You just have blessed me again with another fruitful conversation and I'm so glad that you connected , that we connected and , yeah , we've been able to chat and hopefully , you know , the Lord just sends this out to all those women who need this encouragement and need cheerleaders like us , and just to have some hope and know that they're not alone for sure .

Speaker 2 1:01:47

So thank you , right . Well , thank you so much .

Speaker 1 1:01:51

That does it for this episode of the Catholic Sobriety Podcast . I hope you enjoyed this episode and I would invite you to share it with a friend who might also get value from it as well , and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing . I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach , and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer , visit my website , thecatholicsobrietycoachcom . Follow me on Instagram at the Catholic sobriety coach . I look forward to speaking to you next time and remember I am here for you , I am praying for you . You are not alone . Thank you .