Catholic Sobriety

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast , the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives , Women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason . I am your host , Christi Walker . I'm a wife , mom and a joy-filled Catholic , and I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach , and I am so glad you're here . If you've listened to my podcast for any length of time , you know that I'm fond of saying that you don't have to have a drinking problem to realize that drinking is becoming a problem for you , and that is what my next guest and I are going to be talking about . Slave of Jesus in Mary . Brooke Joyner is a convert to the Catholic faith and wife to Matteo Onori , mother of four wonderful children . She's also the co-founder and CEO of Catholic Owned , a company dedicated to supporting Catholic business owners and building the new Catholic economy . Welcome to the podcast , Brooke . I'm so happy to have you here .

Speaker 2 1:19

Thank you , christy , it's a pleasure to be with you .

Speaker 1 1:23

So , brooke , why don't you just go ahead and share about your personal journey and what initially inspired you to reduce , or actually eliminate alcohol from your life ?

Speaker 2 1:36

Yeah , I think kind of similar to other people normal drinking , I guess in college and as an adult , you know , with dinner or with friends , it's just like casual , normal drinking . My husband is from Italy , so we lived there for four years and his family makes wine , so we drank wine in Italy , so that was fine . We moved to South Florida in 2019 . And down here , like , it's always summer , so people are kind of like always having barbecues , always drinking . So our jobs were really stressful . We were running a company together , not our company , another company . That was really stressful .

Speaker 2 2:19

For those few years we definitely would have a beer or whatever because , like , we were stressed out . You know , it was like a more than full time situation . It was hard as time went on , as we kind of grew in devotion to our Blessed Mother . That's kind of an important part of the story . We wanted to drink less . We also felt called to start another business , to move away from the industry we were in . So we said , okay , how can we do that ? You know , the job that we have is like all-consuming . We both would do it all the time . How can we do ? And we just looked at our schedule and we realized , like after dinner , after the kids are in bed there's a couple hours , and so we said , okay , well , how are we going to use the time ? And I think we have to be completely sober so we're not tired , and so that's kind of how it came to not want to drink anymore . We wanted to use the time for other things .

Speaker 1 3:27

Yeah , that's so great , but how did that go over with your husband's family being that they make wine and everything ?

Speaker 2 3:35

Well , I mean , they only make it for themselves . So , like they make olive oil , they have gardens , so it's like a self-sustaining kind of thing . Have gardens , so it's like a self-sustaining kind of thing , but we don't see them that much . And you know , I remember when I was living in Italy and I was pregnant with my children , it was a little controversial that I didn't drink wine during pregnancy . So yeah , in their region it's very much like oh're going to have like a half a glass with your meal and I'm like I'm okay , you know , without .

Speaker 1 4:08

Yeah , oh , that's interesting .

Speaker 2 4:11

But other than those occasions , because we just we don't see them all that much . And you know , I like really visited last year and I think my husband had like a glass of wine with them or whatever . Like it's totally fine with a meal or something . Oh , so really no trouble . I would say , you know , they , they don't really care about yes , good .

Speaker 1 4:36

So , brooke , how did your faith because you were , you alluded to it in the beginning , but how did your faith play a role in your decision to ? You know , eliminate alcohol .

Speaker 2 4:50

Yeah , and so kind of similar to wanting more time to do other things that for us were more important and we saw as a way to move forward in life . We also want to spend some time , you know , like grateful and again , like if you start creating the rosary , like you don't want to wait until the end of the day , first of all , but if you do and you have wine with dinner , like it's over , you're going to miss your prayers , and then that feels terrible because it's like I want to do this every day and so it's like you know just little things like that that

Navigating Social Pressure in Sobriety

Speaker 2 5:34

you're . Anytime you drink any , I mean in my experience I don't want to speak for others , but for me , anytime I would drink alcohol , I felt like I was losing time and I mean mean wasting time and and I don't really believe that I have unlimited time- you know , and so I have to do what God asked me to do wrong here .

Speaker 2 5:58

And so , just as we grew , with Heather Rosemary Moore , we started practicing the fight .

Speaker 2 6:05

For Saturday we did our Marian consecration and you know , it's kind of all these things going to happen concurrently over a period of time .

Speaker 2 6:27

Consecration to the erected heart is you give everything that you are to our blessed mother for her to do with whatever she wants , and like that includes all the merits of all of your good works , past , present and future , which a lot of people have a hard time , but also like your body , your mind , your time , everything , and so , like sort of a good practice is , whatever you do for yourself , like you should do it as if you were doing it for our blessed mother .

Speaker 2 6:56

And it's like , well , I kind of don't think our blessed mother was drinking . I don't see it . I don't think we have documentation about that . So I'm not going to pretend that's a dogma or something , but I found that very hard to believe and so it was like , if I'm consecrating and giving every other part of my life , who am I to be damaging my body with toxins and wasting time and also wasting the good works that I could be doing at that time . So that is kind of the spiritual side , just maybe a little bit harsh and maybe not the right explanation for every person , but that was definitely where I went with that .

Speaker 1 7:42

Yeah , I think that's a great example of how alcohol was causing chaos in your life . It was becoming a problem . You weren't able to do the things that you wanted to do or be the person that you wanted to be , and so you found that first reducing and then ultimately eliminating alcohol enabled you and your husband to start this business that you had on your heart , that you felt like God was calling you to , and then just go more deeply into your faith , do the Marian consecration and all of that , and I know that you and I kind of talked about it when we were messaging back and forth . But you know , as Catholics , people like , expect us to drink . They're like Catholics are alcoholics , Like you worship Mary and you're alcoholics Like . Those are the two things that I've always heard and I'm like , OK , no and no . But you know , those are things , unfortunately , that people think about us or like to say about us as Catholics . And you know I'm not saying that Catholics don't like to drink , we do . It's like a cultural part of it . Obviously , the Eucharist is wine turned into the body , blood , soul and divinity of Jesus at the time of consecration .

Speaker 1 8:58

I think there's just this stigma around not drinking if you're a Catholic and then if you're a Catholic woman , I just kind of feel like it's up-leveled a little bit . For whatever reason , in social circles and when we go to events , there's a lot of alcohol present . It's not that people are over-consuming like crazy , but it's definitely always there . So what ? As you've gone along and grown in your faith and you know you said you're a convert did you have that perception of Catholics first of all before you became a Catholic ? And then , second of all , what have you encountered , if anything , either socially or otherwise , in regards to the Catholic faith , in your decision not to drink ?

Speaker 2 9:53

Yeah , I didn't necessarily have any preconceived notions about alcohol for Catholics Like other than just the stereotypical , like certain cultures that are historically catholic I don't want to bash anybody so I'm not gonna say it , but like that they would drink a lot or other things like that . But it wasn't really even on my radar . You know , I knew that like I could drink but like not to access , so I knew that like that that was technically sinful , right . So in terms of what I've encountered , you know , it's a very interesting conversation to have with people because there is , you know , there are people who make the argument like that feasting and fasting , like there's a place for both of those and , for example , like if you don't feast properly , like it's like somehow they've tried to make an argument that that is diminishing the celebration or something which I kind of find that absurd . But I haven't been convinced by any argument so far , and maybe I just haven't spoken with the right person who could construct that , but I was not convinced by that . I'm also obviously socially drinking and I would say and this is super controversial but cigar smoking I kind of cluster these two together Very socially a thing . I get it . I know businesses that are totally formed around that and that's great . There maybe are people who can indulge in that and that's great . I kind of view it similar to alcohol . So there's a lot in the catholic world . It's like that is very masculine and , as you said , kind of drinking wine is like a very feminine thing , right , but like , for me I do think it is just fundamentally neither of those things are helping people and I'll never convince otherwise again , unless it meets a buddy who can't . But until that I don't think that those things are helping people be holier and if our purpose is to get to have it , I will do anything to do that . So if something is even like the smallest hindrance , then like I want to be done with that thing .

Speaker 2 12:18

You know the other piece , and this is something that I actually just yesterday went to an event and I was like getting all ready , you know , before events . So I'm noticing even it's been a few years since I drink alcohol . I've drank any alcohol now but I'll notice occasions where I would previously , you know , dream and notice how I'm feeling when I can't . So it's social anxiety . Social anxiety is what it is . So , getting ready for events , I totally work at social anxiety and the longer it takes me to get ready , the worse it is . So yesterday it was a long one and I was like by the end of it it was like an hour and a half I texted my husband . I was like , yeah , I this , this is . I break wine when I get ready for events . It's like the anticipation , it's really anxiety inducing , just for me personally . And then being in those situations like you got to figure out what to say . You have to sit with those uncomfortable feelings and in the case of you know that was a business event .

Speaker 2 13:33

So in a networking event like you still have to show up and represent your business or your brand or whatever your thing is with those uncomfortable feelings and that's really , really hard and I do believe that that's why a lot of people do drink at those events , because who wants to deal with that like it's very uncomfortable ?

Speaker 2 13:56

yeah but so I noticed that in myself . You know this is uncomfortable . Previously I would sort of cope with that by drinking , but then there's always like a little moment of victory after . It's like you know , yeah , I pushed through and it was good and I have more respect for myself because I'm developing emotional skills right and emotional intelligence by pushing through and having to deal with the situation . So it's an ongoing thing with the social anxiety , but I really think that's why a lot of people will want to drink in those events is to deal with that and to hide that .

Speaker 1 15:49

That is 100% true , because I know I mean , that's something that my clients struggle with all the time . Or even just women who are thinking about , who talk to me about maybe reducing or eliminating alcohol . Is that well , I can be fine , like maybe I can not have it at home or whatever , but as soon as there's a social event , there's just that , like you perfectly explained , I'm sure so many of my listeners are just nodding their heads , like you know , like that's the thing that keeps me drinking , or they have that intention , like I'm not going to drink tonight or I'm going to have one tonight . You get into that situation . You get super uncomfortable and just kind of give in to that urge because you don't want to be the odd one out . Or you are having that social anxiety of having to talk to people .

Speaker 1 16:40

A lot of us who are introverts like I always say I'm an extroverted introvert because I can really talk to anybody but I prefer to be by myself I think a lot of us are like that when we think about going to events . Once we're there and we have a plan around it , manage our minds like this is what's going to happen . These feelings are going to creep up and I can tell you , almost 30 years later of not drinking , it still happens to me . I still my brain will be like not that I want it , not that I'm like craving it , but my brain is still like you're the only one , or people are like looking at you , you know in a way , yes , and it's like that's so dumb Christy , like you know this , you teach people that , like you talk about it all the time and , thankfully for me , because it's been so many years and I've managed it , it's usually just a split second type of thing .

Speaker 1 17:35

But when , especially when you're new and when you're just starting to reduce or eliminate alcohol , you just it's uncomfortable . You have to just kind of sit with the discomfort and also , like you said , then the next day you feel a victory for yourself and I can tell you that I've had many women come to me who regretted their decision to drink , but I've never once had anybody say I really regret my decision not to drink last night , like I really wish that I drank last night . You know what I mean . So that is something that is always important to keep in mind . You'll get through it , it's going to be fine . It's just , yes , it's going to be uncomfortable , but with planning you'll get through it .

Speaker 1 18:24

And if it gets super uncomfortable , you can always leave too . So you know , I always tell people like , just get as uncomfortable as you can . But if it's to the point where you just can't resist like you know you're just going to go up to the bar and get a glass of wine that might be the time to tell your husband like I'm , I'm super uncomfortable , I just I can't be here right now and that's okay . That is so okay to make that decision for you and for you know what promises that you've made to yourself about doing it Right ?

Speaker 2 19:01

Well , exactly . And I think for me , you know , it's like I , just for me personally like I don't feel tempted to drink alcohol , because I'm at the point like I feel disgusted about the idea and I do think that's a grace that I was given to be able to just be like I'm at the point like I feel disgusted about the idea and I do think that's a grace that I was given to be able to just be like I'm done with it . I'm walking away and I feel sorry for people who are like getting drunk , not in a pity , but like I feel sorry for them because they're not gonna be happy about it . So I , for myself , idea of anything drinking alcohol like I can't . But the social anxiety of like dealing with the social situations , not necessarily wearing like will people care , because I'll just get like a seltzer water with line like so far no one has ever been like , oh , you're not drinky . I've never had someone say that , even if I'm just drinking the plastic cup of water , so that thankfully that's never happened . But the social anxiety will get to me and so , if you're like me , just go to the bathroom and have a three minute conversation with yourself .

Speaker 2 20:00

I feel totally uncomfortable . That was super awkward back there Just stating it and then it's like , okay , I'm going to try again , but really going to those events . I love your concept of having a plan , but for me to take answer , brothers , like I'm there for a purpose . I'm there to promote my business because I've been given this responsibility and there's not another person on the planet who's going to do this work for me , I have to go do it . So it's only like that purpose that allows me to push through my otherwise totally like awkward social internal conversation . So , and that's just what has worked for me . I don't know if that'll work for anyone else , oh , but yeah , I think that's a great idea to do .

Speaker 1 20:48

You know , there's I think you just don't know until you try different things too and just see what works for you , cause , like you were saying , what works for me might not work for you and vice versa . And that's why a lot of times , like with my coaching , I don't tell people like you need to do this , this , this and this , because I don't know what's going to make them even more uncomfortable . I don't know what's not really going to work . And so that's where , like sitting down , I always say invite the Lord in and have him kind of just go through that event whether you've been to that specific event before or one like it and just kind of come up with , like all the things that could happen , what people could say and Brooke , I'm with you , people do not care what is in your glass , just like I don't care if people are drinking either , you know . So you don't care what's in their glass , they don't care what's in your glass . But our brains are just kind of sometimes they're a little rough on us and they're like , oh , everyone is looking but they're not . They're really , really not .

Speaker 1 21:54

And the other thing that had come up too , when you were talking , is I like to look at

Spiritual Perspectives on Alcohol Consumption

Speaker 1 22:02

sobriety like chastity , right . So like sex is a gift , the marital act is a gift between a husband and wife . And alcohol I heard Father Mike Schmidt say this like alcohol is a gift . So , some people , as long as we use it in the way that is appropriate , that is moderate , that keeps us in control , that has us keeping control of our will and our intellect , that can be done , because people will say , well , jesus drank wine and so like well , you know , but our catechism does say that if you are over consuming , if you are misusing it , you know , drunkenness is a mortal sin because you are killing the body . And I didn't know that for a long time , but it's actually in the catechism .

Speaker 1 22:56

And so you know , we just , if we are going to have it , we have to treat it as just this gift that we have very moderately and kind of like what you were saying with your husband when he went to Italy and had it . You know , like that's an occasion where he had good wine with his family . It didn't cause any chaos , you know , for him or any other problems , and that's why I always tell people find the level of sobriety that works for you , like if I have one drink of alcohol it's all bets are off for me . You know you could probably moderate and be fine , but you don't necessarily like that . It takes away from other things , like it doesn't help you be a good steward of your time , of your resources , of your gifts and your talents that God has given you and I would 100% agree with that .

Speaker 1 23:53

And then for some people you know , they can have it once a week or twice a week or whatever , or on the weekends , and they're completely fine . They can live how they want to live and be who they want to be and who God is calling them to be . So I think that we have to just kind of . I think that we have to just kind of take it like not every time , not all times are good to be drinking or overconsuming . We shouldn't do that . And the same is with the Marital Act . You know , not everybody can do that or should do that .

Speaker 2 24:27

We have to have moderation and respect for the other and yeah , so I really see the spiritual correlation between drinking over consuming and that moderation kind of say , like we should be drinking like the feasting versus fasting kind of thing I couldn't have heard them say that before like it's like the marital act and um , my response to that and I don't , I totally don't want to contradict you at all , no , you're fine .

Speaker 2 25:10

I'm sorry if this is that , but the marital act is by nature a good for the survival of the species and it's like the . You know , equal purpose to the union of the spouses is the procreation of children . That's the purpose of marriage right ? Marriage right . Alcohol doesn't have any of those things . So for me it's like that's what and I mean again , maybe I'm just too black and white and I understand , not everyone is that way but it's like what is the fundamental good of ever drinking ? Because I don't .

Speaker 2 25:49

For me personally , if I have a little bit of alcohol my mental capacity , even if it's reduced 0.1% you are giving up a certain level of control . You are giving up the highest and best use of your gifts . I'm not convinced that that's ever good , but for me I just find myself thinking like I don't see that's ever good . But for me I just find myself thinking like I don't see that as ever good . I don't .

Speaker 2 26:18

The only good of it that I could see is like sometimes , when you just need to get out of the routine , like the same thing as like a vacation , which is maybe the kind of concept of feasting , but it's like you know , removing yourself from a situation just for a change of scenery , to just unplug and then with the intention of replugging right back in . That's the only sort of benefit I can see . But I see other things that can achieve that same unplugging , like go see a movie , which of course obviously you want to make sure it's not like risking , you know , being too over-sexualized or other sins , et cetera . But there are other things you can do that don't steal time the next day . So it's something interesting that I obviously have thought about , but I just don't think it's ever good . But again , I mean , I'm with people who do it all the time , so I'm not judging them , but it's just , if you ask me , that's what I think . Yeah .

Speaker 1 27:21

No , I appreciate your perspective on that and how you explain that and you know , I agree at somebody that doesn't drink . I agree that I don't really see any value in it . But what about those ? What would you say to those who do say , well , Jesus drank wine , the apostles drank wine , like everybody did that , and then also we use wine in , you know , the Eucharist , in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist . So what would you say to people about that ?

Speaker 2 27:57

I'm not a historian but I do understand that drinking water was like a problem back then and the wine was safe because of the disinfecting qualities . The wine was safe because of the disinfecting qualities , so I do understand that . You know , for certain centuries drinking water was unsafe , especially in cities . It changes into blood and the amount that you're drinking to do what our Lord told us , if your parish distributes the precious blood , first of all it's not wine anymore , it's blood . So second , it's a tiny little sip . Our parishes in Florida don't really distribute the precious blood and I'm not upset about it because I'm very concerned about the particles or drops being dropped . So I'm not upset at all because I'm very concerned about the particles or drops being dropped . So I'm not upset at all . I prefer that actually .

Speaker 2 28:59

And then the other thing you know , looking at like our Lord , I mean he can do anything that he wants . So I guess , like God , being allowed to do something doesn't mean I would do that . And then the apostles I mean just because they did something doesn't mean we should do it . Like St Peter denied our Lord three times , you know . Yeah , I don't know if that's really good and I don't know if they drank because they didn't have water . I don't know if they drank for like debauchery Like I have no idea . I don't know if they drank because they didn't have water . I don't know if they drank for like debauchery Like I have no idea , I don't know . I'm not necessarily convincing argument for me .

Speaker 1 29:39

Yeah , that's what I'm probably saying and I totally put you on the spot , you did amazing , thank you .

Speaker 1 29:44

And I think you're right I've actually heard that too about like the water . They didn't have water treatment plants like we have now , so it could be very unsafe . And yeah , and I think things were different than the way that they made wine , the way you know , that it first of all probably didn't have all the pesticides and things that ours have in it from a health standpoint . But yeah , I think it's kind of like how it is culturally . Culturally in certain areas like you think of France or Italy , where they just have they can , it seems as though they can moderate a little bit more , that they see it as just something , an enhancement , not something that they use to just get totally wasted on all the time , although I know that that does occur to you , it does happen time , although I know that that does occur to you .

Speaker 2 30:34

It does happen , yeah , and I would say too , like , if you imagine , like the wedding at cana , like , where they got the water , where did they get the water ? In the jar and then , and the wineskins , like , or that , they were jars , they were the I'm so sorry I misspoke , they were the , I don't want to say the sacramental jars . What is the word ceremonial ? Like the jewish , they weremonial , like the Jewish , they were ceremonial jars , I believe . But where did they get the water from ? Like , was it good water to drink ? I know they drew the water , so maybe it was a well , but if it wasn't from a well , if it was like from a river or something like , it was a purification to make it . So they had something right , because some people will use the Cana argument . So they had something right , because some people will use the Cana argument .

Speaker 2 31:14

The second thing that's coming to mind is , even in these cultures , like in France and in Italy , where this is such an important thing ,

Exploring Saints' Sobriety and Honesty

Speaker 2 31:21

you know , the greatest saints , like St Clair of Assisi , for example , like , think about what they did , like they cloistered themselves . They renounced everything of the world and they cloistered . They closed themselves in . So I learned this last year because we went there . There was like literally like a wrought iron window , that the door , the priests would come and give them communion every , otherwise they were totally closed in like prisoners , like , if you can imagine , that's what cloistered means , but like voluntary , not basically . Yeah , so , like the greatest saints like a what you know , a higher level of perfection which we are all called to , the more you renounce of the world like , the more quickly you amount to higher perfection , and so the greatest saints of our time , of all time , actually were not doing that . Maybe they did it earlier in life , but they left it behind . So I think there's something to that as well . So , yeah , that's kind of going deep on that .

Speaker 1 32:26

Well , and so many saints talk about being sober minded , and the Bible mentions it many , many times as well . So I think that we just have to definitely take that into consideration and think about , like , what is keeping us from God or doing his will ? And because it does , alcohol does darken our will and our intellect , and it's just a fact and it does . So it's definitely something to consider .

Speaker 2 32:54

Again , like , not every one solution is right for everybody , but yeah for sure and I do think it's important to just be honest with yourself , like , yeah , is that really not affecting you ? Really Not at all , zero percent . Because being intellectually honest , and that's kind of a harsh thing , and only each person can have that conversation , of course , and I don't want to be judgmental because it's kind of a harsh thing to say but if you ask yourself in full intellectual honesty , a person cannot say alcohol doesn't affect me at all , zero percent . Because if that's true , then why do you drink it ? So it either affects you or it doesn't .

Speaker 2 33:46

But both of those two things cannot be true at the same time . And so that's , for me , is like I had to ask myself . It's like , yeah , it does , and that's why I want to drink it , but that is also why I should it . So , anyways , but that's like my hard core black and white , intellectually honest to the end , you know , approach which , again , I understand , is all for everybody and I totally respect people that it's not for , but that's our , that's my story .

Speaker 1 34:20

So yeah , that's what we're here to learn and to be inspired with , because I think so many women women in general , but Catholic women too we , you know we have this desire . We know that we want to grow in faith , that we want to lead ourselves and our spouses and our children to heaven , like we , that is , like our main job , right , is just to get everybody to heaven . Well , our main job is to worship the Lord and love him , and you know and all of that . But that's what we're here to do is to lead others to him . And if we can't shine light on , you know , those things that are keeping us from him , you know , like stuffing it in the closet you kind of alluded to that just like not really looking at it . Just be very honest with yourself , like you do when you go to reconciliation , when you make an exam and a good exam and just make sure that you're not hiding anything from yourself or trying to make excuses so that it doesn't feel so bad , or like I'm not as bad as her or I don't do it every night or my kids never see me . You just have to , like you said , get honest with yourself about really how it's affecting you , your life , your spiritual life , your physical health and just all of those things , because it is affecting you and scientifically speaking , it affects you Like all those neurotransmitters . Get all hyped up .

Speaker 1 35:52

And I just was reading a book called Drink and it's by Professor David Nutt . And so if you want to learn , if you want to geek out on all the science behind what happens after you take a drink of alcohol , from the time you take a drink until you've really over consumed , that is an excellent book to read and it's very eye opening for sure . So before we kind of close with , what advice would you give to Catholic women who feel

Catholic Women and Faithful Living

Speaker 1 36:23

isolated , who are afraid that maybe they'll ? There's like a stigma , maybe people won't , women won't want to hang out with them or something if they are struggling , finding that they're struggling with alcohol or just realizing that it's just not serving them , it's keeping them from what God is actually asking them to do the same advice that I most often get is grow in holiness , because when you grow in holiness I can see all the way you can hear what God is asking you to do .

Speaker 2 37:00

Second is to help sort of get rid of the social concern is just remembering our true purpose , which you kind of alluded to to know God , love God and serve God so we can be happy with him forever in heaven .

Speaker 2 37:17

So remembering that and really getting that as your focus in life , you know that helps , because then other things just melt away Like , oh well , if you don't want to hang out with me because I'm trying to get to heaven , like you might be holding me back anyway , so maybe that's better . But like I'm not holding on to that friend Judgment Day , I can tell you that much . Most people aren't like as extreme as I am of like I will do anything . Like a crazy person , I will do anything to get to heaven , no matter the cost . It really doesn't matter . And so having a singular purpose helps . And then the growing in holiness , because you want to build your identity around that .

Speaker 2 38:03

A lot of times in our culture the identity is a lot wrapped up in social circles or material goods or career accomplishments , those types of things . So remembering your purpose , growing in holiness , building identity around those things the rest just kind of melted away in my experience because you start receiving graces . I wasn't able to just walk away from drinking ever again because of my own desire . It was a grace to say I'm done with this , I don't want to do this anymore . I got better stuff to do and it was a grace that I wasn't chemically dependent , because obviously that complicates the situation much further . Yes , these are all graces . You don't get graces by being worried about what other people think , just realizing those that you have to rely on those graces . And the way to get the graces is remember your purpose , grow in holiness , build your identity around that , go to mass more , pray the rosary . The five first saturn is life-changing . Married consecration life-changing , married consecration life-changing . So that's my advice is don't worry about what other people think . That's excellent advice .

Speaker 1 39:20

Two things came up for me . One is identity . Right , that's the main thing that women struggle with . That I talk to because we do our identity Well .

Speaker 1 39:30

A lot of times we get so wrapped up in our alcohol consumption because we're looking to be part of something , to be part of a group , to be invited to be all these things , so it becomes part of our identity , our friend group and what we do is so it can be , especially at different times in our lives , like I'm old now , so it's not as important to be what people think , but it really did matter to me in my twenties and thirties . But really , just , I love what you said , because knowing who you are and whose you are more importantly , is what gives you that fortitude to say no . It makes temperance a lot easier when you can just recognize like my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit . God dwells within me and I have this duty to be careful about , like what I'm putting in , and that's not just substances , that's food , that's what we view , what we hear I mean you alluded to it when you were talking about movies and who we kind of let into our brain so the more we can root out some of those things , those counterfeits that don't serve us , that the world offers us , that the enemy is offering us , like forget about God's goodness , here is some cake or wine , and that's a real thing . And actually I was thinking , as we're recording this Advent is a little ways away , but it's going to be here before we know it .

Speaker 1 40:56

And I was thinking about how , like at Advent , we're called to you know , it's a little Lent so we're called to kind of like get rid of some of those things and make way for Jesus when he comes at Christmas and when we celebrate that , I should say , and a lot of times Advent , it's like all bets are off .

Speaker 1 41:15

We're like eating all the things and drinking all the things and buying all the things , and really we're called to kind of make space , and that's not just for Advent . It's like when we can let go of some of these things , detach from these things that are not serving us , then you make room for him to enter , you make room for those devotions to grow in love and virtue , like Our Lady , and just really understand your faith . And that just gives us this peace and joy that we are seeking when we reach for a glass of wine Right , because we're just like . I just need to like shut it off , I just need to chill out , I just need to be calm . But really we get that peace and that joy even amidst the chaos , even amidst the kids screaming and running around and doing whatever , when we have that indwelling and we allow God in to love us and comfort us and just be with us in those moments definitely .

Speaker 2 42:20

I agree completely and I think you know make . I loved your you mentioning Advent . Right is that preparation ? But there is also like replace it with something correct , right ? So you know , during Advent , there is that abstaining . There is that preparation . There is that unintentional nature of the season which we have in our Christmas night dropping guide coming up soon . You're going to love it , it's so awesome .

Speaker 2 42:47

But in addition to that preparing of the heart , there's the practical preparations of the season . Right , it's not just like hold back and nothing else , and so I think that's spiritually helpful but also practically helpful . Like , if you feel stressed , you can't just sit there and be like white knuckling , right , like I'm just , I'm not going to drink , I'm not going to drink . You have to do something else . At least for me , I had to replace that with something that's good . Yeah , uh , yes , I don't think I don't know , can anybody just white knuckle their way through ? Maybe that does happen , but I don't have that strength spiritually and in life . Right , similar with other addictions or other problems . You can't just sit there and be like I'm not going to do it . Even a priest I heard one time say for folks who struggle with pornography and stuff . Just hold the rosary in your hands . You need something to do . Hold the rosary in your hands , little , practical things . Just replace the thing you're holding . Replace the image you're looking at . Look at an image of the sacred heart of Jesus .

Speaker 1 43:58

And , yeah , I love that you mentioned that . Thank you for mentioning that , because , yeah , you can't just root it out and then just leave space . You have to , like , fill it with something more substantial . It's like if you're eating junk food all the time and then you stop eating junk food , you can't just not eat anything , you still have to eat something , so you replace it with more nutritious food that is going to fuel your body and nourish your body , and the same is true with our spiritual life . Thank you so much for mentioning that . You alluded to your Christmas catalog or whatever , so I want to hear about that .

Speaker 1 44:31

But why don't you go ahead and tell everybody , brooke , about the business that you and your husband have its mission and where they can find you and anything else that they should know ?

Speaker 2 44:44

Thank you so much . Yeah , so our company is Catholic-owned . We're building the new Catholic economy , so our vision is to have one place we have an app and our website where you can access everything , all business types . If you can imagine a whole economy , you've got B2B , b2c , local companies that come to you to serve you , or national companies like your company that you can fulfill anywhere . All of these companies in a whole economy in one place and all owned by devout Catholics .

Speaker 2 45:16

So we don't have to give our dollars to companies you know paying for their employees to go on a seat to get an abortion . We don't have to pay for companies where their health insurance is paying for their company's abortions . We don't have all of these things where you know we need to buy things for our families or our business aides . Those dollars can be going to a company that's at least at a minimum , being operated by an adult Catholic and , god willing , the prophets are going to support their family , their local parish , the projects that God has called them to do , right , and so it's getting on this flywheel going of Catholic dollars , staying with Catholics , and there's nothing wrong with that . Everyone else does it , and it's time for us to do it .

Speaker 2 46:03

And so that's what we do . We have our app , we've got hundreds of companies , we got thousands of app users and just amazing , amazing community that we're growing Now for Christmas , because obviously , of course , we all want to take Advent as a penitential season and a preparation , but we do want to be ready for Christmas . It's the time of year we all shop most , and so the tool we have is called our Christmas Tide Shopping Guide . It's a digital magazine and it has two key sections . So first we have vendors that sell physical goods , so things that make great gifts for everyone . On your list we have 36 this year , which is I'm totally amazed by that Men , women , kids , teachers , stockings , stuffers , like all kinds of gifts .

Speaker 2 46:56

And then the other side of this tool is a liturgical living guide , and so this is a series of more than 25 articles that walk you through Advent , and actually we start with the Annunciation and we walk through with our Blessed Mother all the way through her pregnancy , through the Nativity and on to Candlemas . So it's the whole season to prepare and then celebrate , because Christmas doesn't end on the 25th , it actually begins , and so there's like a little half reflection on these 25 , 26 feasts . So it's very digestible . If you don't want necessarily get like a whole devotional advent book , you can just use this little five minute reading beautiful art and just grow in devotion throughout the season . And so that's going to be dropping on november 4th totally free , and all of our app users will get it , and you'll probably be hearing more about it as well .

Speaker 1 47:54

So that is such a neat addition because I know we're all looking for like little ways to incorporate more of Jesus , of reflection , of all of that during Advent , and that sounds like a really digestible way to do it . And you're right , it's Christmas starts on the 25th and it just goes through , so I love that . It's that whole gamut from the Annunciation to Candlemas and yeah , that's great , I can't wait to see it . So is that something ? Do they have to sign up on your website to be able to receive that ? Or do you have a link for that , for just that , to be able to receive that ? Or ?

Speaker 2 48:32

do you have a link for that ? For just that . So all of our app users will receive it . So , depending when this goes live , the safe thing you can do is just go to my website , catholicownedcom , or you can download the app in the Apple Store , catholic Owned , or in the Google Play Store , catholic Owned . You can use referral code Catholic Sobriety Coach at download . The app is totally free , but just so we know that we came from Christy's podcast , the Christmas Headjobbing Guide will go to all of our app users on November 4th . If you download , you can browse the hundreds of businesses we have . It's a win-win .

Speaker 1 49:08

Great . Well , thank you , brooke , so much for sharing your story and answering some of my questions that I just kind of put on you . I didn't give you a big heads up on it , but you did beautifully and I think you provided so much great information . Just not just , as you know someone who isn't drinking because you realized that it was causing some chaos or causing a problem or actually just making it so that you weren't the person that you desired to be or that you thought God was calling you to be , but I really appreciate some of our theological discussion too . That blessed me and I'm sure it'll bless the listeners too . So thank you so much for being here , brooke .

Speaker 2 49:53

Oh , thank you so much . I hope this helps some souls . Thank you for having me .

Speaker 1 49:57

I appreciate it . Well , that does it for this episode of the Catholic Sobriety Podcast . I hope you enjoyed this episode

Catholic Sobriety Podcast Closing Remarks

Speaker 1 50:06

and I would invite you to share it with a friend , who might also get value from it as well . And make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing . I am the Catholic sobriety coach , and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer , visit my website , thecatholicsobrietycoachcom . Follow me on Instagram at the Catholic Sobriety Coach . I look forward to speaking to you next time , and remember I am here for you , I am praying for you , you are not alone . Thank you .