Catholic Women's Journey to Healthy Relationships

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast , the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives , women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason . I am your host , christi Walker . I'm a wife , mom and a joy-filled Catholic , and I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach , and I am so glad you're here . There are women driven by insecurity who settle for men who don't value them , only to suffer in silence in a loveless or downright abusive marriage . My guest , dana Nygaard , is a renowned psychotherapist , relationship coach , author and national speaker who teaches single Catholic women how to date intentionally , stop settling and start choosing wisely . She gives them the confidence and tools to know when a man is worth it and when to walk away . Dana is here today to share a glimpse of the strategies that she used to heal from her past and find her husband , david , so that you can begin transforming your love life . Welcome , dana , I'm so excited to have you here with me today .

Speaker 2 1:24

Thank you , I'm very blessed to get to spend time with you and your guest , your audience . Well , why don't we just kick things off with you sharing just a bit about dropping some y'alls along the way ? And I came from a really challenging childhood so every type of abuse except sexual abuse and that set me up to have an insecure attachment style . So the men that I attracted were not healthy , they weren't good for me . And sure , there were things that happened after marriage that were terrible . There were things that happened before marriage that I in my brain at that point , the way I lived my life , I didn't see them as red flags . I thought that's just the way life is . You have to put up with these things and that's simply not true . So before I met my precious husband , david , he is just delightful . Everyone who knows him loves my husband . He's the best .

Speaker 2 2:36

And I went through a process because I realized I'm the common denominator in these really unhealthy relationships .

Speaker 2 2:44

So I went through a process where I dove really deep into attachment theory and started doing these different activities and journaling so I could be healed , because God is so good and generous that we have neuroplasticity and we can heal from these wounds and traumas and I was healthy enough at that point emotionally that my husband and I were very attracted to each other . And I say on an imaginary made-up scale , if 10 is really emotionally healthy , we were probably good , strong , 8s or 8.5s when we met . Now I think we've worked probably a good 9.5 in our lives . I don't think anyone reaches perfection on this side of heaven , but that healing of that wound allowed me to fall in love with the man who loves me but loves God more than he loves me . And so once we were married I said I want to go back to school and become a therapist . So I'm a Catholic licensed professional counselor and now I'm expanding into relationship coaching because I want to help more women than I can see in my private practice .

Speaker 1 3:50

And I know it is so needed because I hear time and time again from Catholic women like there's no good Catholic men or there's I'm not being able to find people . I don't want to meet people in a bar , obviously , like there's hardly any men my age at church , like how do you find these people ? Is like first of all , their first question a lot of times because they just feel exasperated . But I like that you mentioned that you had that awareness like maybe it's me , like maybe I'm the one that needs to really work on me so that I can attract the type of man that I want and desire and that God wants for me to have a good , fully healthy relationship .

Speaker 2 4:40

Exactly Because I remember a time before I married my ex that and we're divorced , annulled and all those things I was able to marry my husband , david , in the church and I remember there was a time it was a few months before we were supposed to get married back in the late 80s , and there was some argument . I don't remember what the argument was about , but it was something that he didn't like , that I said or did or didn't do , and he threatened me with not marrying him . He goes , well , we should just call this off , and I don't mean a real heart to heart . You know , let's discern marriage . Is this right for us ? No , it was a threat .

Speaker 2 5:19

And what went through my mind ? I was so unhealthy then psychologically . I was around 20 , 23 years old . I remember thinking , oh my gosh , I need to do whatever he's telling me to do right now or stop doing the thing he doesn't want me to do , because not that , oh , what would I do ? My heart would be broken if this man didn't marry me . What I thought was what will I do ? I wasn't mature enough , even though I then had a college degree . I wasn't mature enough to go out and adult in the world because I'd been so handicapped by so many of these psychological , emotionally abusive things that had happened to me and I thought what will I do without him ? And I knew I couldn't go back home again . That would not be healthy . And I married this man and I allowed him to do that to me and so I thought what is wrong with me ? I have to get healing on this and take responsibility for my part in this . Versus the minute a red flag went up , I didn't head the other direction .

Speaker 1 6:24

Yeah , and I relate with your experience as well , because a lot of people don't necessarily know this about me because I don't put it out there all the time but I was married before I met my wonderful husband and I had just gotten sober and I met him in AA . It's called 13 stepping , so I got 13 . I love that they advise against it , but I , yeah , I met him and he was like I'm going to take care of everything , I'm going to take care of you . And I was just in this very wounded , vulnerable state at that time that we started living together , which was not good . And then , but within me and my Catholic upbringing , even though I was away from the church , something in me was like , well , even though I was away from the church , something in me was like , well , I have to get married because I can't just be living with him . And so I felt an obligation to marry him because I felt like my biological clock was ticking . I was 25 at the time . I felt like an old man I look back and I laugh so hard . But I was like my biological clock is ticking . We're living in said blah , blah , blah , this , this and this , and it was the worst decision . Well , it wasn't the worst decision because it brought me to where I am now and made me appreciate my husband so much more .

Speaker 1 7:37

But he was the type that I was attracting .

Avoiding Unhealthy Relationships in Dating

Speaker 1 7:41

When I realized I needed to break away from him because it was unhealthy , he was manipulative and all of these things I surrendered that to God because I realized I was trying to make something happen . I was trying to make people love me . I was trying to make people you know be in my life or find the husband that I wanted . And when I just surrendered that to God and just which was very hard and wrote down like my list of what I desired in a spouse , it came through in like the most crazy , beautiful way that only God could have orchestrated . And he met like I mean , we don't have the perfect marriage , but who does ? We have a great marriage , strong marriage , but yeah , it just like he had all those qualities that I was like , ok , well , I doubt you're going to be able to find this guy , but here's this , this and this , and then here he was , it was beautiful . So I think not settling is like a big lesson from both of our stories .

Speaker 2 8:46

Yes , I love what you shared . Two points really stood out to me in your story is that sense of obligation . Can you imagine we felt that , right ? Can you imagine those standing there at the altar ? What if that had been part of our marriage vows ? Because in the Catholic Church you don't just wing it and write your own stuff part of our marriage vows , because in the Catholic Church you don't just wing it and write your own stuff . But let's pretend we said I marry you because I feel obligated , right , and because my biological clock is ticking . That's not a good sign , right ? So sometimes that's the sort of stuff that I have to put forth to one of the women I'm working with so they can hear how ridiculous it is , versus wagging a finger at them saying don't do that , right , because they need to come to it on their own . Then I love the idea that you had a list and it sounds I'm sure , if we looked at the details and we don't have to share the details that they were reasonable things . It wasn't . I want a man that has these 10,000 perfect , you know attributes , because we don't have 10,000 perfect . Like you said , no one's perfect , no marriage is perfect . I also had a list and I didn't .

Speaker 2 9:55

What I tell women is . I say keep your cards close to the vest , because if you lead with certain things , they can say things to make you go . Things . They can say things to make you go oh , check . And so David knew I had a list . He didn't know what was on the list and so some things I learned the first night on the first date and I thought check and other things . I thought it's going to take a little while for me to know these things about him and so we call them my top five . So one of them is I wanted a man who made me laugh Doesn't have to be a comedian , but make me laugh and so when he makes me laugh I look at him and I go top five and then he smiles because he knows there's the checklist . So it's all those little rituals of connection that you have that you can refer back to . Cute things like that , those inside things that can really bring out some extra sweetness in your marriage .

Speaker 1 10:48

Yes , I love that . That's so cute . I like those inside jokes . Yeah , so in your experience , what's the number one mistake that single Catholic women make in dating and how can they avoid that ?

Speaker 2 11:04

What I've come to is because I heard it so often with girlfriends , with clients , with just people in my world . It's what I call the good guy fallacy . So they'll be dating a guy , all right , and let's say his name is John Doe , and they'll say John brings me flowers , he opens car doors , okay , great . Then the other day , though , he got mad at me for some ridiculous reason , and he screamed at me and called me a blank . Oh my , so when I would point out those things that you just mentioned , that's emotional abuse . Or he , you know , gets in front of me , doesn't hit me , but he leans over me and he intimidates me and screams at me . Why don't I behave better ? Oh , my goodness . Hey , that's technically physical abuse , because he's intimidating you with his body , and they would immediately it was almost like the women had all read the same script . It was so interesting . They would say oh , dana , and they would bow their heads and would say I'm so embarrassed right now , I feel so guilty , I'm so ashamed . Wait , what ? Why are you ashamed ? I've misrepresented him to you because he's a really good guy , and in my office I have my therapy office . This is my podcast studio . I have two French doors that are white . I said , ok , if we had post-it notes for these behaviors and these are healthy behaviors and unhealthy behaviors where would I put brings you flowers ? That's right , we'll put on the healthy side . Ok , we go through that . So when I hold one up that says screams at you called you this name and I'll write the name out , where do I put that ? They just look at me and blink . They know where to put it . I mean that's an easy one , but in their mind they have a confirmation bias . It's a psychological term that means this is the box I have the guy in . Good guys , bring flowers , hold car doors open , say please and thank you , and so to them .

Speaker 2 13:05

When they see something that goes against it , their brain is going no , no , because growing up , most likely the parents would do just enough to keep the child connected to them , but yet things wouldn't match up and make sense . It's like wait , why are they doing that ? Why ? So ? The woman learns then to not trust the truth . She believes the mistruth because if she points it out to the guy , what a lot of these men will do is they'll say okay , that was yesterday . Why are you focused on the past Like dude , it's been like four hours . But that's the past , let's look at the future . And so then there's gaslighting . So I think women ignoring the warning signs it's the biggest danger . I know it was in my own life in the past .

Speaker 1 13:59

That's interesting because , as you were saying that , I was just thinking of how we like , if somebody tells us something good about ourselves and something bad about ourselves , or somebody tells us 10 really good things about ourselves and one bad thing about ourselves , we'll remember that bad thing . But when there's somebody that we love or we want to love us , they can say 10 bad things . We can know 10 bad things that they've done to us and one good thing that they've done , and we'll hold on to that one good thing . From your perspective as a psychotherapist , why is that ? Do you ?

Speaker 2 14:36

think . I think a lot of it is when I dig into it further , because at first the women will act like it's no big deal or they'll tell me okay , let's say with the name calling . They'll say I told him , and they'll get stern with their voice . I told him hey , you don't speak that way to me . I let him know Okay , well , since you've been dating , or since you were dating and now married , how many times has that sort of thing happened ? Oh , dang , I can't even count . It's happened so many times . Okay , well , what happened to you ? Weren't going to put up with that . And they look at me like did you not hear me ? They go again . I tell them you're not going to talk that way to me , but he has , and he keeps doing it and you can tell they're just like wait , what ? Because in their brains they think they're setting a boundary .

Speaker 2 15:27

So when we really dig in and I'll say why do you think you accept that a guy calls you names or yells at you or lies to you , whatever it is and normally it's I don't think anyone else will ever love me . I feel blessed in some way to at least have someone paying attention to me , and it's just heartbreaking to think you're settling , because Jesus never wants us to settle . God does not want us to settle , because it's actually uncharitable to participate in someone else's sin . Uncharitable to participate in someone else's sin . So if I allow myself to be the emotional punching bag or physical punching bag of a man , how am I helping him get to heaven ? So it's actually charitable to hold people accountable .

Speaker 2 16:18

So an actual boundary would be if you choose to yell at me , I will choose to not speak to you . I will choose to break up with you , I will . And then you have to do the thing you say you're going to do , because if not , they tend to love bomb , and then they get extra sweet and the woman thinks , oh , it's like he used to be . But how he used to be it wasn't actually reality , it was a con job to get you in close enough . And so it's this whole distancing pursuer relationship that goes back and forth and it's beyond toxic .

Speaker 1 16:53

Yeah , it sounds miserable and I've been there .

Speaker 2 16:56

That's right .

Speaker 1 16:57

I know it's miserable . That's right , that's good . Thank you for detailing that or for letting us know about that . That's good . Thank you for detailing that or for letting us know about that . And then , since we're talking about bad behavior , in your experience , what are some signs of , like alcohol red flags that women should be aware of ? Because a lot of times not every time and again , it's not an excuse , it's an explanation , is what I like to say ? Um , a lot of these behaviors , bad behaviors , can come out when they're drinking or over consuming . So to kind of nip that in the bud or to know , before you really get invested , how can they be aware of them ? And then , if they notice that , is there anything they can do to address that ?

Speaker 2 17:47

I think that's a fantastic question and I've never been asked that before and I think it's a really important , important point to make . So one would be , as you said , like the way they're going to treat you . So when my understanding is that when a person has a filter up , it's because , hey , in society I know not to say the following what alcohol does is it lowers the filter , right ? This was a big topic in grad school in our different classes , and so if I'm around my , let's say , uncle Bob , I'm making that name up , and when Uncle Bob drinks he says really derogatory things to me . It's because that's what he actually thinks about me . But the filter says , oh no , don't say that in front of her mom and daddy , but yet that's what he really would believe about me . So I think it's important to pay attention to how do they speak to you if they have had too much to drink , because that means that's what they're thinking . If I went and gave my husband right now a bunch of beer , like you're in an experiment , you have to drink six beers right now and then talk to me If that happened he would actually probably get sappy and say even sweeter things than he normally says he wouldn't be , like oh , I think you're a B-word Like it just wouldn't happen , right ? Okay , I think one thing to look for specifically if we're going to look at signs it would be is there an increase in secrecy , like why didn't he tell me about ? Wait , what's going on here ? Why is he suddenly so evasive ? That's a sign , because I know in my past no-transcript dude the gaslighting like oh , my goodness , right . So I think why are they lying ? Right ? And if you can notice these things when you're dating , it's going to help you to not marry someone who lies to you , because , again , we're not going to get up there on the altar and be like I marry you a liar , right ? Why would we want that person to lie ?

Speaker 2 19:58

Another one is is there frequent drinking ? And it's hey , this is just how I settle down every night . I have a couple of cocktails , I have half a six-pack , I have a six-pack . Or is there binge drinking man , he's great during the week but , boy , when Friday night hits , he goes through a 24-pack over the weekend , where he only hangs out with buddies that are heavy drakers . Because one thing that I told my precious husband David is I said okay , and he has a family where his father was an alcoholic at one point in his life . Then he stops . It was a period of time and I remember how much that wounded my husband the stories he told me , and so we discussed this topic and I said he told me , and so we discussed this topic and I said I'm never going to see you drunk the first time . I see that will be the last time and I just let him know up front and he's never done anything like that , but I think it's important to have those conversations .

Speaker 2 20:54

Another thing I would pay attention to if I was a single woman dating a man is is are there sudden mood swings ? With women , we can often say oh , it's my time of the month and you know I'm getting a little moody , a little PMS , okay , but the guys don't really have that . So why are they suddenly moody and grouchy ? Right , or maybe they're overly emotional . You're like what is happening ? Why are you acting that way , like it's a bit much right now ?

Speaker 2 21:18

I think another sign would be if they neglect responsibilities , hey , you said you were going to do this and you didn't , and you promised this and you didn't come through on it . Why are you behind on your bills . I know you have the money . What is happening ? And then I think , if they also have an increased tolerance , you're like wait , how did their tolerance for alcohol get stronger ? They must be drinking more .

Navigating Relationships Without Alcohol

Speaker 2 21:41

And then I think another one is when they deny , like the story I showed you earlier , or minimize , it's no big deal , okay , get off my back . You're not my mom . Why would you want to marry a man and have babies with a man who spoke that way to you ? So I think those are some good things to look out for .

Speaker 1 23:05

Yeah , those are great . Those are really really great , because I think sometimes we get into those situations or I've known people that have gotten into those situations and they're like I didn't know that he was like that , but you probably did . But you know , like you were saying , maybe you weren't really looking at that part , because you were looking at all the good things that you wanted to see or felt like , oh he's the best I can do , or I'll never find anyone who loves me like that . So , definitely , ladies , pay attention to those red flags before you walk down the aisle and it'll save you a lot of heartache , I think .

Speaker 2 23:43

Absolutely , and I have a thought off of what you were just saying . I think another thing is if you came from a home where , let's say , dad had some inappropriate behavior , it didn't have to be drinking , but whatever it was , he screams , he yells , he throws things . If you have a mother or grandmother or someone pleading that person's case , you know how your daddy is . Your daddy works so hard and he just blows off steam . Mom , he screamed at me . He said these horrible things . Now you just need to be nice about your daddy , quit your talking and go set the table . So it tells you when there's bad behavior , your job is to ignore it . Or there's the manipulation , spiritually , of you need to forgive him . Yes , it is true , we need to forgive , but it doesn't mean we need to forget .

Speaker 1 24:32

Yeah , there's a danger in forgetting , because then it'll just keep happening over and over again , exactly .

Speaker 1 24:50

How can single Catholic women navigate challenges of dating while they're trying to either reduce or eliminate alcohol altogether ? Because I hear this as well , where it's like , well , anybody want to date me , because that's one of the things , is like , hey , let's go out for drinks , and which I think is not a good idea . You can speak to that for drinks , and which I think is not a good idea . You can speak to that . And then or they just think like there's nowhere else to meet people unless I do go to a bar or a club or you know wherever there's alcohol . So how can they navigate that as a woman who is earnestly trying to reduce or again eliminate alcohol for any reason at all ? And then what benefits do you see in kind of moving through that discomfort to date that way ?

Speaker 2 25:37

Okay , I'm going to start backwards and speak to the benefit . All right , I think the benefit is when we're uncomfortable and I don't mean uncomfortable like my spidey senses my God-given intuition is saying don't go down that dark alley . Okay , listen to that , because the next day you're probably going to hear a bad thing happen . And you were saved from whatever horrible thing , right ? Like people who were late to work on the day that 9-11 happened right , it was my day to get donuts , thank goodness , because you weren't in the happened . Right , it was my day to get donuts , thank goodness , because you weren't in the towers , right ? Okay , so this isn't uncomfortable . That means I'm growing uncomfortable . No one dies from being uncomfortable . So if you're uncomfortable and you realize like this doesn't feel good , all my friends are going out drinking . I want to be able to do that you have to do the thing . That is not easy and what was uncomfortable will become your new normal and you'll be okay and you'll realize oh look , I didn't die from that . So I think that's one of the benefits . Is that growth ?

Speaker 2 26:38

And my first thought when you were asking about okay , what needs to be involved in sober dating is Jesus . I trust in you , because we're not ever supposed to be excessive about anything . If it's a hobby , then we're going to make it an idol . So I think to always say and pray out loud Jesus , I trust in you that I don't have to go to a bar or a place that serves alcohol to meet a good man and a good man . Well , love in general means to will good for the other person . So a good man is going to say wait , what's your background ? I'm very surprised because you just seem so together . Thank you for sharing with me what you've been through . I admire all the steps you've taken to get to this point .

Speaker 2 27:39

I admire all the steps you've taken to get to this point . I will love you , protect you and I think this fits in here is let's say that you agree to Italian food at an Italian bar . Let's say that's a thing , okay , italian bars and you're supposed to meet at 7 pm and you're thinking , now , I really should not have agreed to that . Then I would call him up , text him , whatever you want to do . Hey , you know , tomorrow night we're supposed to meet at this time at this place . I had Italian food for lunch and then go get Italian food for lunch . So you're not a liar . Okay , I'd like to meet someplace else Chinese , whatever or I'm really not comfortable meeting in places that have a lot of alcohol . You can decide later if this guy deserves to hear your story , because it's an honor to hear someone's story . It really is .

Speaker 2 28:28

Not . Everyone deserves that and has the right to hear it . Because if they push back and they're like what do you mean ? You said Italian , of course . I want to go with some place that has a you know , an open bar . Why would I not ? That guy really isn't interested in you . Because when a man is really interested in a woman , it doesn't matter if she says hey , I want to go and get a hot dog from the hot dog vendor that's there on Saturdays outside of Home Depot , not even a food truck . They will meet you there and be like that's the best hot dog I've ever had in my life , because they just want to be with you . Oh , you're too full to eat , we'll go get ice cream . They don't care . So that's a great way to test if you're marrying or dating a controlling person . They should want to protect you . That's so important right ?

Speaker 2 29:20

So I think that's important . I think another is , yeah , is choose alcohol-free activities . If you have a friend getting married and you're dating a guy and you know your friend's reception is going to be wild and they're all Irish Catholic , there's a huge flowing bar , there's a champagne fountain then maybe you go at the beginning and then you leave , and if your friend loves you , she's not going to want you to be in that atmosphere and then maybe your sweetheart takes you out for a nice dinner someplace . So there are ways to work around not having to be around alcohol . Some people can be around it and it won't impact them . It just , you know , depends .

Speaker 2 29:59

And then I think you have to be very open in your communication . I wouldn't write off the bat because , again , they haven't earned the right to hear your story , but I do think fairly soon in the relationship they need to know about your background so that they can decide is that what they want ? Just like you and I , we have divorce in our past . We had to share that at some point . Does this person ? Are they open to marrying someone who's been through a divorce before ? So I think those are a few things , and just the more you build emotional intimacy with a person , then you're going . It's going to be so much easier to share these things . But if there's someone who doesn't want to share their feelings , ever you may survive that during the dating period .

Speaker 1 30:54

But over 10 , 20 , 50 , 60 years of marriage , that's going to be very lonely , that they don't share their heart with you in whatever your decisions are revolving around drinking Red flags . If someone is like pushing it on you , I think that's a definite indicator , like why do you want me drunk or why do you want me uninhibited , for whatever reason ? I think that that is . And then , yeah , like when I was dating my husband , I don't know if he knew right away that I didn't drink . We kind of hung out as friends first . So I think he might have .

Speaker 1 31:30

But he drinks very . I've never seen him drunk ever . He has one or two and he's fine . And I'm like , how do you do that ? But you know he's like a regular . But for a long time we didn't have alcohol around or anything like that and until he realized like it doesn't really bother her . You know I was like it doesn't bother me if it's in the refrigerator . For some people it does and you have to respect that as a partner . So you need to find a partner that will respect that choice that you're making .

Speaker 1 32:01

But I think there's a real danger in adding alcohol into the dating scene too early because , again , alcohol , even if it's just a glass of wine or whatever , it does lower our inhibitions , which helps with social anxiety , or takes the edge off when you're like super nervous with social anxiety , or takes the edge off when you're like super nervous . And I don't know how you feel about that one way or the other , but for me it's . It just seems like it can be a really dangerous mix of being with somebody that you know really nothing about and consuming alcohol , and then if you already have a tendency to over drink , that is even more dangerous , because I made lots of bad dating decisions , boyfriend decisions , all this kind of thing , while I was drinking . It was when I was sober that I was able to see people for who they really were , whether they were drinking on the other side of me or not .

Speaker 2 33:06

Exactly so . I think you make a really important point there about those inhibitions . So maybe in a Catholic woman's mind , okay , there are certain rules that I need to follow and it's because God loves us so much that we're not supposed to do these behaviors . I'm going to . Maybe I'm not a virgin , but in this relationship I'm not having sex outside of marriage With alcohol .

Speaker 2 33:30

It's so easy to give into those feelings , right , those emotions in the moment , versus being clear-headed and thinking well , because we do our thinking with our frontal lobe and anything that impacts that stress , feeling emotionally flooded .

Speaker 2 33:48

The oxygen drops to 30% because 70% is now in our extremities . So we can go into fight , flight or freeze , right , that means we're not thinking well , well , the impact of alcohol on our frontal lobe is terrible . So whatever decision you're making , you're not making it in your right mind . And then I think , like you said before , okay , you know , moved in with him , oh , now I need to marry him because we're already living together , right , and all God says is come back to the church , go to confession , get on a right track , and you then have chastity at that moment . But I think chastity and alcohol is a really dangerous mix to get a woman to give in to things that in her right mind she knows is just not good for her spiritually . And I'm not saying I was a perfect angel in my past by any stretch of the imagination . It's just I think it's a dangerous fix .

Speaker 1 34:50

I agree . I agree so much with that . So what we've talked a lot about , like noticing a toxic relationship or you know , in those types of things but what if a woman is listening right now and she finds herself in a toxic relationship with a man ? They're not married , they're dating , but maybe they're moving towards marriage , maybe they're even engaged , but she's just having reservations . Those red flags are that unsettledness in her about what the future could be like , but yet thinking well , if I don't , marry him , then I'm not going to have kids .

Speaker 1 35:29

I might not meet the person I need to meet , but she knows like something needs to change . So what's the secret to breaking free from this toxic relationship and keeping away from those relationships in the future , so that she can attract a loving , caring Catholic man ?

Speaker 2 35:51

So there's two parts to that right , and the first is when you know in the depths of your being this is not who God's calling me to marry , to find the people in your life that speak the truth to you . So if you have a girlfriend that has a really healthy marriage and she's like honey , what you have that is not healthy ,

Establishing Healthy Relationship Boundaries

Speaker 2 36:13

I would listen to her . Maybe it's a relative , maybe it's a parent . I would not listen to the friends that don't have what you want , because they're not speaking from actual experience . If you know hey , I love my cousin , you know Joni , and Joni is a huge people pleaser I would not go to Joni because Joni does not look at the world in a healthy way . So I would also then go to someone who's independent a relationship coach , a therapist , my priest and tell him about the behaviors like what are the concerns ? Because no one should push you towards someone who is not responsive to your needs . So responsive isn't just yes , no , responsive is . I have a need here . It is . What are you going to do to help me meet that need ? Either be my cheerleader , help me pay for something , whatever it is , and if they don't respond to you and follow through on what you need . You're going to have a miserable marriage and even though it can be very scary and isolating to be alone , I think women who have been through trauma and abuse will tell you it's better to be alone than to be in a bad marriage . So that's the first part of it . The second part of it is so that's like the how do you get away ? How do you get yourself healthier ? So you start setting boundaries .

Speaker 2 37:44

I think it's fascinating that when I first got my degree because this is a second career for me I was a high school and middle school teacher for 16 years before I transitioned into being a licensed professional counselor . So when I was first beginning my practice and as I was building it , I worked for nine months at a mental health facility in the outpatient area , and so the people that had been an inpatient and they had had their shoelaces taken away and they tried to kill themselves , that sort of thing I would get them after they were . We called it stepping down so from inpatient to outpatient and it was almost like they went to school for the majority of the day and we would work with them on these different issues that they're having in life . Yes , we had occasionally people there who had personality disorders , someone who may be schizophrenic and laughing in the corner voices that they hear in their head , but what I thought was just so fascinating was most of the people in my group and I could have , I don't know , 12 , 15 people at a time . It always came down to boundaries . I'm so depressed and upset because of what this man did to me , what this woman did to me , what my mother , what I'm allowed , and so I taught them how to have boundaries . So part of it is allowing yourself to know okay , recognize , jesus had boundaries and if I'm supposed to be like Jesus in all ways , then I need to have boundaries too .

Speaker 2 39:16

So if , using my imaginary scale of a 10 , being emotionally healthy , having a really good emotional intelligence , emotional quotient , one being terrible , if I think , okay , how would I rate these men ? Okay , let's think back to the first guy dated . The next guy , all these men , I think they're all emotional . Who's ? 2.5s ? Then I'm probably that . But when I ask people , I'll say , okay , these women , what number would you give yourself on this imaginary scale ? I think a good seven . Yeah , I think I'm a solid seven . How about the men ? And they'll say twos or 2.5s or a one , and I have to disavow them of baby . You're not a seven , like that's just off base , and I do it in a very kind way , but they have to get out of . Why am I so healthy attracting these unhealthy men ?

Speaker 2 40:14

So what it winds up being is how do we set boundaries ?

Speaker 2 40:15

How do we realize I'm of value ?

Speaker 2 40:17

Is we have to see ourselves as Christ sees us , how much God loves us ?

Speaker 2 40:22

And we have to work on repairing the insecure attachment .

Speaker 2 40:27

Because if you have voices in your head and I don't mean literal voices , but if you have that negative self-talk where you say I'm not enough or I'm too much my mother always said you're just too much that gets in our head . Would Jesus actually sit there and say , hey , girl , me and all the communion of saints , we've been talking about you and we all think you're way too much or you're just not enough , you're unlovable . That's not of God , it can't be , because we are so loved and cherished . It gives me the Holy Spirit goosebumps to say that . So we have to own that . We are daughters of a king and we have to do the work it takes . It's hard work . I can't even tell you how many tears I've cried , how many realizations of oh , I always viewed that incident in my past through these lenses . Oh my gosh . But now I see in a whole different way . No wonder I accepted this from Ben , and so we have to heal that insecure attachment , and that's what I help women do now .

Speaker 1 41:36

That's beautiful and I love like what you're mentioning because it speaks to my heart and the work that I do . So much is it comes down to identity , Like when we know not just who we are , but whose we are .

Speaker 1 41:48

then we can set those boundaries we can set those boundaries with love , because you're like I will not accept this . I am a temple of the Holy Spirit , I am , you know , the daughter of a king . When you know that and I always tell people , like , get into scripture , you don't have to have it memorized Write it down and make those declarations Like I am beloved , like God has called me by name , he has redeemed me , I am his and he is mine . And when you speak that over yourself , again setting those boundaries becomes super , super easy , because you are confident in who you are . And that is so important , not just in relationships but in life as a whole , because then you don't allow anyone your mama , your anybody you know , your best friend , your husband , whoever to treat you in a way that is not respectful , because you know who you are . It doesn't . You can't control how people do that , but you can set a boundary so that they can't Like I'm not taking this anymore , and not just speaking it , but like taking action on that .

Speaker 2 42:57

Yeah , you nailed it . That is so important and I love that idea of who you are . Right , we belong to him . We're made in his image . He never wants us to be abused because he wants us all to get to heaven and be able to be in full communion with him and to worship him and to see that beatific vision . And if we allow ourselves to be mistreated by people , we're not helping them get to heaven either .

Speaker 1 43:25

Yeah , that's such a good point . That's such a good point . And it just causes us wounds that the enemy can speak into and poke at and shame us and make us feel terrible and , like you were saying , those things that we , those stories we tell ourselves , those things that we have in our minds . And if we can root that out again , with those declarations of truth over us and setting those boundaries , then it becomes a lot harder . Because we recognize the voice of the enemy . We recognize the voice of ourselves or our moms or teachers or whoever was mean to us , was mean to us , but at the same time we recognize God's voice more clearly and that becomes so much more beneficial because then we know , yeah , God wouldn't talk to me like that , he wouldn't say that about me because I am beloved and he says so like a million times in the scriptures .

Speaker 1 44:22

So I love that and I think that that's a really good thing for Catholic women , especially as you're dating to really I mean we all need it but when you're dating just to know that about yourself , because then you will not accept less than what God has for you . You will want that and you mentioned before , like being in no relationship is far better than being in an abusive relationship or a relationship where someone makes you feel terrible about yourself and wound you continually , every single day . The other thing that you said that I loved is that you said don't listen to the friends that don't have what you want . I love that because so many people have these opinions of like well , this is how you get a man , this is how you get a partner , this is you know , whatever . And you're like if they don't have what you want , then don't listen to them , because you're going to get what they have and that is not going to be ideal what they have , and that is not going to be ideal .

Speaker 2 45:28

Is that correct ? So if I want to open a restaurant and you own successful restaurants , if you started from the ground up , I'm going to pay attention to you . Why am I going to pay attention to this person over here ? They have a failed restaurant . They never opened one .

Speaker 2 45:38

People have a lot of opinions , but we have to go to people who have wisdom , because that's one

Navigating Healthy Relationships Through Faith

Speaker 2 45:45

of the gifts of the Holy Spirit . And when you were speaking a moment ago , I was thinking about how God speaks to us and if we feel peace about something that's of God . Now I can have peace that God has put on my heart . Girl , you're going down the wrong road and the peace is , yes , that down the wrong road in the pieces . Yes , that's the way he's directing me , even though I'm like , oh , it's going to be so hard to give up that road because that road was spun .

Speaker 2 46:13

Sin is always fun at first , because it's the allure , right , that Satan with the carrot going hey , come get this . But the minute we get it , satan's like look at you , you idiot . And then he says horrible things to us and judges you're a tramp , you're this , you're a loser . That's not how God does . Because if you think about the story of the woman at the well , he didn't say look , you're basically a hooker . At this point you can't say that . He said I know the truth , right , I know . So they could get that out of the way . He already knew she didn't have to hide it anymore and she went and became this amazing evangelist and again I have the Holy Spirit goosebumps talking about that . He didn't sit there and say I'm going to chastise you for an hour and for me to break away from my family of origin , I'm going to have to go to the church to be told okay , we're going to mistreat you in these ways , we're going to put you in dangerous situations and if you don't agree to that and that , we're going to chastise you and tell you I was literally told we're going to have a conversation where I'm going to go through and name everything you've ever done , since the time you were born , to hurt us .

Speaker 2 47:32

I wasn't a therapist then , but I knew that's not , that's not health , like no , would it be a two-way street ? What I get to say back and again , that wouldn't be healthy . So you know , you can't always have those people around you and sometimes you have friends for a reason , for a season , and I had a girl from one time and my husband is the sweetest man . He's not the type to say you need to get rid of that person , you need to . But one day he said why do you have that person in your life ? And I was like what they were with me when I was diagnosed .

Speaker 2 48:08

I'm a two-time cancer survivor , so when I was diagnosed the first time , yeah , praise God , thank you , lord Jesus . And I've been 20 years since the colon cancer diagnosis and whatever . 2011 is 13 years on a breast cancer . So , praise God that I've been able to have this time on earth , right , thank you , lord Jesus . The great oncologist , and then great God , right , the generosity of the divine physician , jesus . But my thing was yeah , but she was there . And he said when is your debt to her going to be paid ? She's not assigned to you . And again , I had that confirmation bias , but she was there for this . We laughed before about this . She's unkind to you .

Speaker 2 48:55

And if my husband who's the sweetest man God ever made said something , I listen Versus people who are always trying to be rabble-rousers and get me upset , all the time they were not there for my good . They're actually essentially enemies in the way they acted , trying to bring me down under the guise of to get me stirred up about stuff . So when you meet a healthy person and you're used to being in a world of chaos , that person could seem not the most exciting . It's because your system is so used to being agitated all the time . But chaos is not of God and the demons and Satan cannot emulate . Exorcist will tell you they cannot emulate peace . Isn't that fascinating ? Yeah , I love me an exorcist .

Speaker 1 49:51

Me too . Oh my gosh , I am so addicted to listening to the exorcist files I like burned through it , and now I'm sad because I've finished it and I'm just waiting for the next season .

Speaker 2 50:01

Yeah , they're amazing , right . The catechesis , the safety that we learn , and it's interesting . Okay , why do we listen to that ? Okay , it's fascinating , right , it's because we don't want to be caught up into that , we want to be safe . Women actually listen to more true crime than men . What , like that seems kind of weird . It's because we're trying to protect ourselves . And it's the same thing in relationships . If I can learn , okay , those are the warning signs . And if I was single and out on a date and I'm like that sounds like what happened to Pam , then I can connect it in my brain and go back and be like , hey , y'all , this happened and they can support me . Dana , no , that's why I started a community for single Catholic women , so we can support each other and say girl , you're on target . That is sick or honey , he seems delightful .

Speaker 1 50:56

Yeah , I love that because that's what I'm learning from the exorcist files . It's not just about like learning about the exorcism itself . It's like there's good there , there's bad , there's good , and good always wins , and it's so beautiful . The thing I love most is just seeing how , like Father Carlos Martins , like how he commands them and through Jesus's name , you know , with Jesus , Jesus is the one doing the work , but he's the one that's doing those prayers that's commanding everything . He's the one that's doing those prayers that's commanding everything .

Speaker 1 51:28

And for me , versus true crime , because I listened to true crime for a really long time but I got super paranoid and my husband was like you should probably stop listening to that . So I was pretty sure like one of our kids was just going to get snapped up in front of me . It did make me aware . But with the exorcist vials it's so hopeful because it's like God is like yes , there's these forces , there's these things that are at us , and some listeners might be like you guys are whack , but no , it's true . And but the beautiful thing is like here's the hope , here's the beauty , and you just see that through these exorcisms and , like you were saying , the catechesis , because there's a whole bunch of episodes that are . There's one that was so beautiful on Eucharistic miracles , so I highly recommend listening to that . I do not recommend listening to it when you're walking your dog in the dark . I did that one day and it scared me a little .

Speaker 2 52:23

Yeah , we only listen to it when we're not going right to bed . Yeah , because I don't want that getting in my head of me thinking about the crazy things these people went through and the attacks and stuff so we're like he will often bring out . We have so many blessed objects in our home . Our home looks like it's a mixture of farmhouse , even though we live in the middle of the city . It's just the vibe that speaks to us Antiques and Catholic art , and so the pieces have been blessed and we'll sometimes bring in a big old statue of the Blessed Mother to be with us or put a rosary on the table , because they reenact them and they're so powerful . But I think it's funny . Your husband was probably very on point , like , babe , you got to calm down with this stuff , with the true crime . Like okay , I think it's healthy for us to learn you did , you know enough , you didn't need to keep hearing it about this true crime to protect ourselves . If not , we don't know it's dangerous to go down the dark alley by ourselves .

Speaker 1 53:20

Yeah , and dating is not the same as it was like when we were dating . So it's even more important to be aware and that's why I think you need your full faculty when you are going into these situations . You do not need anything hindering , like you said , that fight or flight , hindering that voice . You know the Holy Spirit inside of you saying I'm not sure . You know , you want to be able to recognize that unsettledness in you and say is this because I'm nervous or is this because I'm getting , you know , not good signals from this person ? So I think that , yeah , women , you definitely need to be aware , and not every guy is going to be , is going to be great , even if he looks very , very handsome and is wealthy .

Speaker 2 54:10

That's exactly right , and I think it's also very wise to pray . So , okay , you're going to go on a date with Jim . All right , dear Lord , I ask you to reveal to me Jim's intentions . And it's interesting the movie's come out . I don't remember the name of it now , but it's a movie Netflix Anna Kendrick stars in it and it's all about the dating game , which used to be a popular game show , the dating game show of serial killer that the guy had already murdered women when he went on the show .

Speaker 2 54:46

He was already wanted by the FBI . Thanks , how brazen he was . Like here's my face in front of the world . No one said my gosh , that's him . No one figured it out . They immediately go around the corner on this , like let's just chat before , like we have our real date . Everything in her said nope , and by the grace of God she listened because she could have been his next victim , right ?

Speaker 2 55:14

I remember going on a date and at the moment feeling pressured because we have fight , flight , freeze and then fawning . Fawning is when you go overboard on something and you're sucking up to this person . And I remember coming home from this date after I'd been like sure I'll take a second date . Wow , a guy wanted to go on a second date with me and when I got home I believe it was Holy Spirit going no , no , no , don't do that . So I let him know . You know , I think some things we discussed didn't quite hit right with me . So thank you so much , but no . And then months later something in my life came up . We got reconnected and another just nightmarish relationship happened . Because I didn't go back to what the Holy Spirit said I'm operating more out of desperation and fear because of the cancer diagnosis and I was vulnerable at that point .

Speaker 2 56:18

And these men , because you could date a guy that's just not the right guy for you . He's a nice guy , he's just not the right guy for you , right ? Hopefully you'll find your Mr Right , meaning right for you , not like you know , he's perfect . There are men out there who are absolutely predatory and I've known quite a few men through my clients , the women I work with in my own life , who use their Catholicity as a calling card . So women think check , he's Catholic and then they'll bury him and they'll find out later I'm actually an atheist . What you just had , this revelation ? No , they were faking it the whole time , but they knew enough to do the sign of the cross and say things , but when there is a mismatch , you're thinking they say these Catholic things but they don't live this Catholic life .

Speaker 2 57:11

You're most likely being lied to or manipulated in that moment . And they're like a lion at the edge of a herd of gazelles and if there's something that startles the gazelles , the gazelles are like what ? And they're all about to take off , but there's one over here like and keeps chewing the grass . The lion's like . That's the one I'm going after , because I know that one's at the edge of the crowd and they're vulnerable . Maybe they have a little bit of a limp and it's almost like we have a sign on our forehead that says I'm vulnerable , you can take advantage of me because they test .

Speaker 2 57:50

And a lot of times women will say to me he did this thing the other day and I thought , why'd you do that ? Okay , well , what happened then ? We went on our date , okay , and what happened after that ? They went on the next date . Okay , here's what .

Speaker 2 58:05

I think I don't even know this dude . I think he was testing you . You said you know , here's like a boundary that most people have . It has an unspoken boundary . I think he was pushing to see how much he could get away with . It's like growing up .

Speaker 2 58:23

If you had a sibling and you're in the back seat and you're arguing , your parents are like stop it . He's touching me and your sibling has their finger like a quarter of an inch from you . I'm not touching her . It's manipulative because they're seeing how far they can go , because if you didn't say excuse me , no goodbye , they know she put up with that . And it's going to get so much worse after you're married . So much worse Because then they have you and they think you're a nice Catholic girl . And I remember thinking before how can I divorce when I'll be ? My thought was I'll be ruined . Who will want a divorced Catholic woman ? What nice man out there would want that . And it was a priest who actually told me Dana , you're not meant to be abused . Wait , wait , what I didn't know , that . I thought I'm in it . I have to put up with this . He's like no , you don't have to do that . Okay , beautiful .

Speaker 1 59:27

Thank goodness , oh , my goodness , yes , well , and you know , like you were saying , especially with your background , like growing up that

A Journey to Healing and Love

Speaker 1 59:34

way , being mistreated so heartily and heavily , you probably just didn't even think anything of it . But when , as we get to adulthood , we need to think about , like ourselves and like maybe I didn't have a choice then , but I have a choice now and that's where you make those decisions , like I don't have to let what used to happen to me continue to happen . In fact , I don't want it to happen . So I'm going to take these measures , like the boundary setting , knowing your identity , being very careful to root out toxic relationships .

Speaker 1 1:00:15

I love that you mentioned friendships , because that can really hold us back as well . And , yeah , I think that those are all super good points and I'm glad that you brought all of that up and I know it's going to be really , really helpful to those who are listening . And I have one more question that I'm going to let everybody find out where you are , because I'm sure they cannot wait to know . But the last question I have for you is how can Catholic women remain hopeful and confident in God's plan for their relationships , because he does want to find Mr Right , right ?

Speaker 2 1:00:50

now right , it's to follow the nudgings that God is giving you ? If that is , I just have this feeling I'm supposed to go to adoration all the time . Then go , maybe you're going to meet your spouse there , right ? If it's , I don't know why . I just think today I'm supposed to go get to-go food from this restaurant , weird . And when I think no , no , then I get this urging like no , I need to listen to it , you could meet them as you pick up the to-go , right . So I think part of it is to listen to those nudgings and , if that is to do online dating , to not do online dating , whatever it is to listen to that and to give yourself over to Jesus .

Speaker 2 1:01:34

And just like from the Exodus files , we know that demons enter when we invite them in . Most of us aren't saying hey , satan , come over , let's hang out . Okay , we're not Satanists , we're not Wiccans , we're not doing that . Hey , satan , come over , let's hang out . Okay , we're not Satanists , we're not Wiccans , we're not doing that . It's as if you've ever left your door open to your home and you , oh , I thought I locked that and you're like oh , no wonder there are flies in the house or something . Oh , I was carrying groceries . I forgot . I thought I locked it , I didn't . Okay , but you let someone .

Speaker 2 1:02:03

So , just like we invite in the demonic without always realizing that's what we're doing , we also need to invite in the Holy Spirit . The Holy Spirit is here . So when I pray , I typically begin with come , holy Spirit , come . It's not like the Holy Spirit's sitting on a bench . He's like oh , they called me , and he comes running in . He's here , it's really me tuning in to him . So invite him in and say Holy Spirit , it's not just I want someone tall , dark , handsome , whatever what's his name going to be , it's the Holy Spirit . What in me needs to be healed so I can grow closer to you and then find a man who reflects the love of Christ to me , because that's what my husband reflects to me . He loves me so much .

Speaker 2 1:02:54

You could put a gun to his head don't do that , but you could and say something ugly about Dana . He would tell you you got to take me out , because that's not happening In public . We don't say mean things about each other . I don't say things like oh , my husband . And then make some passive-aggressive comment , laugh like it's funny and roll my eyes in contempt . When I used to teach students who would see us out and about or maybe they're older now , but we would run into them at some place . Whenever they would meet David , they would always look at him and go . They would smile .

Speaker 1 1:03:33

They'd be like Mr .

Speaker 2 1:03:33

Nygaard , it is so great to meet you . Mrs Nygaard loves you so much , because that's all they ever heard from me is how delightful he is . And it's not fake like , oh , I can't tell him the real stuff . That's how much we love each other . So if you invite the Holy Spirit in and say , show me my wounds , and if a word of knowledge comes to you , it could be a word , it could be a statement , it could be all day .

Speaker 2 1:03:55

People keep saying the same scripture to you . You keep seeing , you know 4610 everywhere you go . When you look up in the Bible okay , I think I should look up Psalms oh , my gosh , be still and know that I am God . Oh , if you tune into the voice of God , he will show you signs along the way and he'll show you sweetheart , I love you . You need to heal this in you . I have a great guy waiting . But it's very much like that old joke . The person drowns and they get to heaven and they're like I asked God to save me and St Peter's like he sent a boat , he sent a helicopter like yes , but the person is saying , no , god's going to save me , I sent people to you . So for people , we're either going to learn a good lesson or a negative lesson , and we can learn from both of those . So really invite in the Holy Spirit . And then you can even do a timeline of your life for positives , the negatives , and you'll often see patterns there .

Speaker 2 1:04:59

But if you invite the Holy Spirit into those type of activities , he'll tell you where you need healing , healing . Or go to someone that really can yield to the gift of words , of knowledge , the gift of prophecy , the gift of someone that you trust . That falls within the teachings of the church , because if it's a stranger and they don't know you , but that's what they're known for and they're like I'd said , blah , blah , blah . Does that resonate with you ? Oh my gosh , that's the fourth person in 48 hours to say that to me . That's the thing I need to go . God said blah , blah , blah . Does that resonate with you ? That's the fourth person in 48 hours to say that to me .

Speaker 1 1:05:35

That's the thing I need to go work on , because if God wants you to have your special someone , you'll have them . But you have to be part of the solution , right ? Oh , that's so good . Yeah , you have to be part of the solution . You have to make sure that you're in a good place before you can receive . You know , because I think if I would have met my husband when I met my ex-husband , I would have probably not even given him the time of day , because he is so nice and kind and treats me so well and I wasn't used to that . So I did have a lot of healing and things that I had . That had to happen before I could receive what he was able to offer and what he's able to give me , because I'm the same exact way .

Speaker 2 1:06:17

I think the same thing and I'll give you one more little nugget . I think it's important here to , when you not on a first date , but once you're exclusive and you're like , you're both marriage mind and you're talking about these things to find a man who loves you as the adult and loves the little girl inside of you . So if the little four-year-old inside of you says bugs , they scare me , he's the bug killer . He's not like get a shoe and whack it . Okay , we don't want that . We pay for people to come quarterly to spray our home . I don't want bugs in my home . I'm paranoid .

Speaker 2 1:06:50

I grew up near the coast in Houston . I don't care how clean your home is , they're going to be roaches because you're near humidity . It's just going to happen . I don't want to live in that world anymore where creatures are running around . That's part of how he loves those fears and concerns inside of me . He also loves me so much that at the state fair of Texas because it's huge when I say I want a cotton candy , we stop and get me a cotton candy because it's my little girl going . Yeah , yay . So to find someone who loves that part of you and says do you want to go see this museum ? Because maybe I don't know it's a Barbie museum . You love Barbies when you were . Says do you want to go see this museum ? Because maybe I don't know it's a Barbie museum ? You love Barbies when you were little , whatever . And then do the same back to him . That's a beautiful thing to do because it helps heal a lot of those wounds from the past .

Speaker 1 1:07:39

Oh , absolutely , absolutely . I love that . I have never thought of that before , but I mean , just as you were saying that , yeah , my husband does that , like he my little whims or my little things , you know he does , so I love that . So let me just have you tell everybody where they can find you . I know you're lots of places , but where they can find you and if you have any resources that you want to note , just tell it all .

Speaker 2 1:08:08

Okay , thank you . So if you want to hear more of my story and learn a little bit more about the background and I think people always really like hearing about a therapist , because on the outside people are like , oh , you have it . So together we're just people who are trained really well in our field . We're still just people , right ? So if you want to hear more of my story and how I overcame these things , I have a limited podcast . It's just three episodes . That's what it was always going to be .

Speaker 2 1:08:35

And if you go to claritypleasecom , that's where you can access Clarity Please , which is my podcast , and all sorts of other tools . And in this group I help women to recognize the warning signs . And then , if you want more help with the whole how do I go from insecure to secure through the Catholic lens then that's a great place to reach me . So I have two options for folks , but claritypleasecom is a way to reach me . So if you're a woman who you realize I keep dating the guys that are wrong for me , I help women turn that around so that you can receive what God has in store for you . So claritypleasecom .

Speaker 1 1:09:19

Thank you so much , dana . I feel like I could talk to you forever because it's been such a fun conversation and it feels like we have so many things in common . I just want to let my listeners know , like maybe you're not in a place like where you're seeking a mate because you're already married . You already have your perfect husband , but I bet you know somebody , you know a woman who is really desiring a good and holy marriage , and Dana's going to be the person that can help , especially from a Catholic perspective . So share this episode with them , share the claritypleasecom , her podcast and everything else , and we'll look forward to talking to you again . Thank you again , dana , so much for your time . It's been such a blessing to have you here .

Speaker 2 1:10:10

Thank you , it's been my pleasure . This has been

Catholic Sobriety Coach Helps Stay Sober

Speaker 2 1:10:11

a lot of fun .

Speaker 1 1:10:14

Well , that does it for this episode of the Catholic Sobriety Podcast . I hope you enjoyed this episode and I would invite you to share it with a friend , who might also get value from it as well , and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing . I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach , and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer , visit my website , thecatholicsobrietycoachcom . Follow me on Instagram at the Catholic sobriety coach . I look forward to speaking to you next time , and remember I am here for you , I am praying for you , you are not alone . Thank you .