Healing and Empowering Catholic Parents

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Catholic Subriety Podcast , the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives , women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason .

Speaker 1 0:16

I am your host , christy Walker . I'm a wife , mom and a Joyfield Catholic and I am the Catholic Subriety Coach and I am so glad you're here . I don't know about you , but I look around the world today and I just think that if people knew just how precious they are in the eyes of God , just how loved they are , and how he equips us and he loves us and he pours into us , I just really feel like our world would be a better place . And as Catholic parents , we just want to do that for our kids . We want to give them that because they're not going to find that in the world . And my guest today , lindsay Karen , is doing just that . She is the founder and director of Theology of the Body Parent School , which is committed to educating and empowering parents on the purpose and gift of personhood . Welcome , lindsay , I'm so glad to have you here today .

Speaker 2 1:26

Thank you . Yeah , I'm really excited to be here and especially to be able to talk about just what you mentioned , like the gifts of our children . It's just so more important now than it ever has been in our culture .

Speaker 1 1:39

Oh amen , yes , I agree . So to get started , Lindsay , could you please share just a bit about your personal journey , maybe your family life , and how it led you to establish the theology of the body parent school ?

Speaker 2 1:56

Yeah , well , I'm a mom of . I have three boys who are five , seven and ten , and I grew up in like a stable Catholic home but it was not one that really talked about feelings very much . We didn't talk about theology of the body . It was coming to exist but it wasn't known and the teachings of it that you're a dignified and precious human being . Those weren't really part of the language of my home , or many homes I think , when I grew up and so I went off to college and , like a lot of people , I got lost pretty quickly and I had not been that firmly rooted in my identity and my and the gift of myself . So I went seeking for that in all the wrong places , looking , and you know , sure enough , if you're looking it's there right , and I just ended up filling myself with all the wrong things . I just tried to fill that void and tell myself that message that I was loved and I was good enough and just turned to the culture and turned to drinking and hooking up and the whole scene of college , california , san Francisco and then , 10 years later , I was fully addicted to alcohol and had really just seen my life kind of crumble around me and I was really , really desperate . So , by a miracle , I became sober . I had tried on my own many , many times over that decade , not been able to do it , and I , just through prayer , I woke up one day and was able to stay sober , which I've been for 12 years .

Speaker 2 3:35

So that started the journey for me of healing , and there's a homily that one of the priests that I know gave one time , and he said that there's a difference between being saved and he being healed . And so he likened somebody out in the forest who had had a terrible accident , had fallen down , was alone , had broken legs and was thinking they were going to die . And then they saw the helicopter come and they heard the noise of the helicopter and they realized that they were about to be saved . However , for them to become healed was going to take a lot longer , right ? So that I say that moment 12 years ago was when I was saved from the culture and from the path that I was on , and that the healing was going to take a lot longer . And so I'm still on that healing journey probably will be for life , but part of that journey led me to theology of the body , to discover what my gift and purpose was in life .

Speaker 2 4:33

And then it became really acutely a focus for me when I had my kids and just recognizing what was going on in the culture , all of the lies that were even worse now than when I grew up , and what my kids were going to face and seeing their little personalities emerge and seeing my oldest , who had a personality much like my , very , very sensitive , and I just I remember just looking at him when he was little , thinking , oh , the world's going to devour him , like what can I tell him , what can I teach him , what can I equip him with ?

Speaker 2 5:05

And theology , the body , became the answer . So really , it started with this desire to be able to pass something really solid onto my kids that I didn't have growing up and then it quickly turned into Well , if I am going to do this for my own kids , you know the whole world needs it , so I might as well put it in a format where I can then share it with other people . And it started small like can I share this with my friend group ? Can I share this with my local community , somehow ? And then the idea was just born of this magazine format that we have created and we're actually now able to share it with the world , which is just truly amazing .

Speaker 1 5:43

Yeah , that is amazing . I hear so much of myself in your story , so I just I am so grateful to you for sharing that . I'm a mom of three boys too , and I love that , and I identify so strongly with that desire to want to equip them , not shield them , but just to prepare them for what they are going to face . And I really realized that desire more as they've gotten older and the more that I've learned about you know what's out there . And , of course , even between the time that my twins were little to now they're almost 17 , the world has changed , the rhetoric has changed in such a dramatic way that it's like , oh my gosh , I have to even up my game even more . So it's such a blessing that , like you're doing what you're doing , and we have others , other voices in the Catholic Church that are really stepping up and speaking out on these topics that are so important , and as parents , we just need to be able to do that for our kids .

The Journey of Healing and Sobriety

Speaker 1 6:57

And there's something else that you said I loved that homily about the difference between being saved and being healed , cause a lot of times I say , you know , like when we stop drinking , everything doesn't magically become better . So I work with women in recovery who they don't necessarily need help with the not drinking part , but it's all the other stuff that's like left in the wake that happened when we were drinking and that is a healing process and that does take time because I think a lot of times even family members or friends think well , you stop drinking , so you should be fine now . But that's just the beginning of a journey , a beautiful journey , but it is . It's a long .

Speaker 2 7:45

It was the windy journey , yeah it is the one thing , if I'm ever talking to someone about the whole journey , that I try to help people realize always the difference between physical and emotional sobriety is two different . I mean obviously intertwined , but two totally different journeys . You have to make both of them and and yeah , I mean for me , I was . I didn't even know the terms of what to put to this experience until later on , because I lived my first probably five , four or five years of sobriety , just dry right . So I didn't know the term dry drunk , I didn't know even the term emotional sobriety . I had quit drinking and you know things were starting to heal just by the nature of not having to drink as the bandaid .

Speaker 2 8:39

But it wasn't until I had my second son and I had this severe onset of you know people call it postpartum depression . I think , frankly , it was just the onset of okay , your alcoholism is coming to a front , you now need to deal with it because your circumstances are too stressful and you can't just be dry anymore . You have to actually go deep . And you know it could have been a combination of both of those things , but it was right after he was born and that allowed me to start the healing journey . But , yeah , definitely very , very distinct aspects .

Speaker 1 9:18

Yeah .

Speaker 2 9:19

Yeah .

Speaker 1 9:20

And I'm glad that you mentioned it , because it's like be patient with yourself , cause I think that sometimes we can be hard on ourselves too , like why am I not getting this ? Why don't I feel better or why , you know , is everything still so hard ? And it is . It's just like we just have to be patient with ourselves and just work through the process and bring God into it and it is possible , but it's going to take time . It's kind of like grief , right , grief . You don't just like get over it , like once the funeral is over . It's a huge , long , lifelong process of learning to live differently and without that person . And so you're learning to live in a very alcohol-soaked culture where it's everywhere and everybody thinks it's funny because , well , it's not funny , it's kind of sad .

Speaker 1 10:11

But like yesterday my 10 year old came home and he was like mom , I need your coin , I need to take it to school tomorrow . I'm like what coin ? My mom had given me a 25 year coin on my 25th anniversary of being sober , and I was like you're not taking that to class . He's like no , I need to take it . I'm like why ? And he's like because we had a substitute and she said that she was asking us like what we gave up for Lent . And we said what did you give up for Lent ? And she said drinking alcohol .

Speaker 1 10:43

And I was like , oh , that's a really good thing to give up . He's like , yeah , but I said that you've been doing that for 27 years and no one believed me . None of the kids believed me . So I have to bring proof , oh , my goodness . And I was like they couldn't believe you . They're 10 years old , but and it's not even I'm not even saying that . That's what's always happening in their home , but it's just what's everywhere , right , it's in TV , it's in movies , it's . They're like , of course , grownups , every grownup drinks . Every grownup has to . You know .

Speaker 2 11:18

Yeah , I mean , it would be like if someone told me they hadn't had a cupcake in 27 years .

Speaker 1 11:23

Right , it's like , but you're lying . I don't know how you do that so interesting yes .

Teaching Unrepeatable Value to Youth

Speaker 1 11:30

So I've heard you say that one of the things that you try to do is to teach parents , to teach their kids , that they are unrepeatable , and I love that . So can you explain what unrepeatable means in the context of theology of the body and why it is so important for young people to understand it ?

Speaker 2 11:53

Yeah , I think that that is . I mean , it's just so blatantly what they're missing in the messaging , first of all from the culture . So everything from TV and social media and airbrushed pictures and magazines just says that you know , things can be created on a whim . So just teaching kids that they are so valued for being the one and only them . You know we talk about it in terms of like fingerprints . We all know nobody has your same set of fingerprints . But do we talk about that in terms of the soul ? Nobody will ever have the soul imprint that you have on the world , the exact combination of all of your gifts and talents and traits and desires and hopes and quirks and your sense of humor and how it matters . You know they have to know that it matters . They have to know that they matter .

Speaker 2 12:48

And I think within theology of the body . You know a lot of people think that it is only about gender and sex . That's a huge misnomer about it . It's actually been standardized into teaching standards now in the last four years or so . There's 12 teaching standards and only one of those has to do with sexuality . The other 11 are on the like , unrepeatability and sense of gift , of personhood , of body and soul , and it all wraps up and culminates in this teaching of vocation .

Speaker 2 13:21

And so , you know , in the magazines especially , we break down that vocation in terms of , yes , there's either married life or single life , or consecrated religious life .

Speaker 2 13:31

But then also within your job too , you don't just do a job , some people just do a job , and most of us are really very blessed and fortunate enough that , if we are reading theology of the body and we are listening to podcasts like this , we have the resources and the gifts that we can train a child to look for a vocational calling that will give them ultimate fulfillment and purpose , not just for themselves , but to give that back kind of an honor to God . So helping them identify what are the absolute gifts that you have that maybe your brother doesn't have and this is not to shame anyone in the family , but to say you have these gifts , you , brother , you have these gifts . And then , third , brother , you have these gifts , look how they're all different and we're all part of the body of Christ , right , and so helping them understand what kind of career and vocation and answer to a calling that they can live out with the rest of their life , that's very a theology of the body .

Speaker 1 15:37

Yeah , I'm so glad that you mentioned that , because a lot of times when I've thought of theology of the body and the things that I've bought on , it have been related to , like purity , chastity , our body .

Speaker 1 15:52

But it's usually like that's kind of what I'm going for .

Speaker 1 15:55

So I and I believe so strongly that it's so important that everyone know , just like you were saying , we're like snowflakes , not in like a bad way , but like in the unique way of , yeah , our natural talents , our experiences and everything , plus our spiritual gifts and our charisms , and how that all works together and God has created it and even used right our experiences of straying and choosing not the right thing to make something so beautiful .

Speaker 1 16:31

Because that is what prompted you to do what you're doing and that's what prompted me to do what I'm doing . And I think that , knowing that everybody's going to have their falls , everyone's going to have their temptations , everyone's going to have these things , but if they have the tools to know like I don't have to give in and do what the culture is telling me that I have to do , or be what the culture is telling me I have to be , that I can actually turn to these tools and maybe , if they do fall , they'll be able to pick themselves up a little bit easier , because they do know that they're unrepeatable , that they have purpose , that they are worth something , that their body is a temple of the Holy Spirit , even when they're filling it with pizza and beer and college I don't know , right .

Speaker 2 17:23

Yeah , it's so good and I think that , as I've really acquired this language , it was interesting . Earlier you mentioned the rhetoric of the culture having changed in the last 15 years or so , even just drastically

Power of Rhetoric and Spiritual Gifts

Speaker 2 17:37

. But rhetoric is a really , really powerful tool and a lot of people are using it for evil right now to reframe and reword the way that they want to present an agenda . But it can also be used in the absolute opposite , for such good right , and I think that the biggest gift that learning and kind of immersing myself in just allowing theology of the body to seep into my soul and my being has done for me is given me a whole language , a whole rhetoric of how to approach my family , my kids , my life , and it all revolves around the theme of gift , gift and love , and so really , I think , helping children . This is the best way . Of course , we can look at our kids and be like , oh , your gifts , your obvious gifts , are this , this and this . Good job , we love you and that's what Rupert could show and everything . But it's taking those really difficult moments and saying , okay , your behavior just expressed this thing , which is maybe not the best manifestation of this spiritual charism , but let's look at what it would be like if this spiritual charism manifested in a good and holy way in you and I mean , those are big words , obviously .

Speaker 2 19:00

Just bring it down for little kids of saying I'll give the example of my oldest son , because this is where the whole teaching has really affected me personally the most is in this area of concern and fear that I've had for him , as I've seen that he's so sensitive , right , and looking back at when I was little and everybody told me You're so sensitive , stop being so thin-skinned . You know why are you so sensitive ? And it was only ever pointed out as a negative thing to me , and it's like it has taken me these years of learning and healing to realize that it's one of my greatest gifts , and that's really sad . That shouldn't happen at almost 40 . That should happen when they're little , and so we talk about it all the time . When he's very sensitive about something all the time , we break it down as to . This is how this kind of hurt you in this situation . This is why this is a gift , though . This is how you can use your sensitivity as a gift , just a reminder all the time .

Speaker 1 20:06

You know his sensitivity can help the world .

Speaker 1 20:12

Oh , that is so good . That is so good because I would never think of it like that , like I've done so much study on charisms and spiritual gifts and I've never thought of it that way , like this is why you're responding this way . But what if you use it for this ? That's so good . Thank you for sharing that . I also just want to say thank you because you had said that you saw this need within your family . You wanted to create this within your family and then you were like , well , I need to share this with the world . So thank you for that .

Speaker 1 20:48

Yes , because you could have just kept it with your family and your you know , three boys and your husband and maybe shared it with some friends . Yeah , but I just appreciate your drive to do that because I feel , like you know , because we both are we like are into spiritual gifts and charisms and knowing them and the importance of that . But one of the biggest things with charisms is how they're not for us there to be shared and for us to use them to work together , just like we're both doing now . Like you have your charisms , I have my charisms and you have your mission and ministry and I have mine , and yet they can still come together and help and reach more Christians and build up the kingdom of God for His glory Right and hopefully raise up that next generation .

Speaker 2 21:44

Yeah , I would say to that . You know , if anybody because you nailed it when you said thank you for your yes , it wasn't like my idea . Yeah , it was definitely an idea from the Holy Spirit and it was an opportunity to just say yes to it and to go along with it . And so I would say two things to people . One , if you are feeling any kind of prompting , anything that you feel like you should say yes or maybe yes , do it . Whatever that is got to put on your heart what to do next , maybe it's just send an email to so and so , and then that'll get the ball rolling in the direction of the way that you're being called . And then I would say also don't despair and don't be discouraged if you're not feeling an invitation , because now might not be your time .

Speaker 2 22:37

So for me , I you know I got sober and I was dry . I was doing a lot of things to try to experiment with sharing the faith , but my soul it wasn't ready yet and God knew that , but I didn't know that . So I would I remember being at the time on Instagram and looking at the kind of like the key . You know Catholic women , influencers of our generation Sarah Swofford , jackie Francois , like these cute moms and they had kids and they were out and they were dead . They were out and they were doing stuff and I was like Lord , what about me ? I want to , I want to and I felt so jealous and I had to . I had to get off Instagram and you know , it was one of those I really had to trust and it was painful because I wanted to be used and and , and he wasn't ready for me because I wasn't ready , my soul wasn't ready . I just trust that . Trust that .

Speaker 1 23:39

Yeah .

Speaker 2 23:40

Yeah .

Speaker 1 23:41

Yeah , his timing is perfect . And that's the same . I so identified with that , like even all those names I've ever just been like I wish that I could do something like that and make a difference . And you know , you see their impact and you see how many lives that they're able to touch , and it's like I know . But I think that's that desire that God places on our heart . And so he's like , not now but soon , but you have that on your heart and who knows how long they had it on their heart before they got to where they are , because you never see , like that lead up to just see who they are now .

Speaker 1 24:15

And that was something I had to really come to terms with and understand , because , like you , I was like , well , I'm never going to be able to do what they're doing , I'm never going to have that kind of an impact . But it was realizing I'll have the impact that God wants me to have . And I just have to get out of my head and just start doing right , because if we don't do , and we're paralyzed by the fear or we're paralyzed by thinking I'm never going to be so and so you're not going to be so and so You're going to be you , but as long as you keep giving God your yes , then He'll use you in the way that he intends to . That could be small , that could just be within your parish or your community or your diocese . It could be bigger , it just depends . But we just have to keep giving Him our yes .

Speaker 1 25:11

I always think of . There's a Mother Angelica quote . That's like I won't even say it , right , but it's something like I'm not afraid to die , but I'm afraid of getting to heaven and God saying but look , what you could have done if you had been obedient or if you had done what I asked . And she's like that's what I'm afraid of is not being able to do that , everything that God intends for me to do .

Speaker 2 25:35

Yeah , and like all good things , it can lead to this sense of overwhelm if we don't enter that with prayer and heal Right .

Speaker 2 25:47

So even that stirred in my heart all the things I want to do , more of that .

Speaker 2 25:54

I don't have the time to do it all , and so all of this stirring the stirring , especially in this area , to be sober for the Lord as a woman in a Catholic home , especially in the region where we live , the devil doesn't want that to happen , so the things that will be used to tempt us away from that will be things like hearing a quote like that and going oh yeah , that's right , I want to do more than what I'm doing .

Speaker 2 26:27

No , it's like a constant battle , you know , constantly being told that we need to do more . In fact , I take great pride in looking at my phone frequently and saying what can I get rid of ? That's good , that's my newest thing . I was like what apps can I get rid of ? What habits can I get rid of ? What can I take off the calendar ? What's the least we can do ? Because there is one great Pope Francis quote that I love and it's something I don't know if I'll get it quite right , but he says don't be afraid of wasting time with your kids , never be afraid of wasting time with your kids .

Speaker 2 27:03

Quote unquote . Wasting yeah , just what a gift , you know if we could . Of course , like mother Angelica , we want to answer all the callings and do all the things , but what if the calling is to lay around with your kid after school for an hour and not do anything ?

Speaker 1 27:23

Yeah , Right , and that's the seasons , too , that we're in , because when I was having all those stirrings and promptings and wanting to do all these things , really that was my time . There's like those hidden years , you know , when you're with your kids so you can only do so much . Now all my kids are in school and you know I have more time , but , yeah , you don't want to waste that time worried about needing to do something great . You're doing something great just by being their mom and being present , because that's really our first priority before doing the other stuff , because there'll always be time for that later .

Speaker 2 28:06

Yeah exactly .

Speaker 1 28:07

Yeah , there , my previous guest , paige Ryan .

Speaker 1 28:12

She said something that I that has stuck with me , and it relates to drinking , scrolling , any of those things that just take our attention and distract us . Like you were saying , the devil wants nothing more than that to distract us from our families , distract us from our motherhood , distract us from God . That's what she said , something that she had read or seen or heard . That was like you , if you check out like that , then you are going to miss something that you are supposed to see , that you are supposed to hear and that you are supposed to do . And I think of that . I've been thinking of that ever since she said that and so , like you , it's like well , if I'm just playing this game on my phone or if I'm just scrolling Instagram , or you know , and my 10 year old comes up to like , say something to me and I don't give him my full attention , I might miss you know what , what I really needed to hear from him at that moment what he needed to tell me and the reaction he needed from me .

Speaker 1 29:15

So I think being just having not being down on ourselves about it , but just having that awareness like , oh yeah , maybe I'm not gonna do that next time or you know , yeah , you know , I'm a big fan of one , just one thing at a time .

Speaker 2 29:33

Just take one of those distractions at a time and cut it off right . So because we can get a lot of things back right . We live in a culture where we can go to the store and kind of get back if we toss something . But I'm kind of in the stage where my youngest is now five and I started doing some training again and my trainer is very big into the mental and the mindset , like none of it really matters if we're not doing it for the right reasons , which is the first time that's really started to shift my brain . So anyway , with that I've started just getting rid of these distractions and these crutches .

Speaker 2 30:20

So , you know , I think alcohol for some people can become an addiction just because of the nature of culture and society and we drink a lot , and then it's a problem For most people it's because it's a crutch , it's because it's a , it's a band-aid and it helps us cope in a way . You know where we were uncomfortable before . And so with that gone , I found , oh my gosh , I'm still . Oh , I still have a lot of crutches .

Speaker 2 30:49

I still have crutches and so I , you know , years ago I started with Instagram so it wasn't on my phone and then it wasn't , and then I got rid of it completely and then I don't miss it at all . But then I was going on the internet to look at whatever the news , which is awful . I don't know why . You know I told my sister I can be in bed and scroll the news for an hour at night and just read murder story after murder story , and she's like , well , that sounds awful . At least when I'm on the internet for an hour I come out with a great handbag . But you know you wouldn't think you could and I might have to add it back as my kids get older and into more things . You know , there's still in that sweet spot . But I just took the internet off my phone three months ago and I can do pretty much everything . If I get a link I'm interested in , I look it up later that day on my computer , but 90% of them aren't that interesting later . You know what I mean and so , yeah , so I I'm a big fan of just saying what's one thing I can try to get rid of . Just track yeah , and don't say , oh , I think I'm gonna go on my Instagram less , or I think I'm gonna go on the internet less to check that news . Just take it off your phone .

Speaker 2 32:03

And for me it was , you know , some sleep aids . I really wanted to get good sleep . Alcohol used to help me sleep . I would take benadryl

Theology of the Body for Parents

Speaker 2 32:10

. Well , that's not great for me and so I just threw it out . Then I would take melatonin like I don't need that , probably , but I'm scared to not have something to help me feel the way I want to feel . That's still there . Mm-hmm , I threw it out . You know I could go to a store and get it . I just think . I think probably any woman listening to this has 50 distractions vying for her time and or crutches , and she has those children around her , maybe , and or other things of value and importance , and she has this feeling , maybe , of guilt . And there's no room for guilt .

Speaker 1 32:50

Right , don't have guilt , but just get rid of the crap yeah , it's about moving forward , right , just doing better in the next day . You know every day is a new day , so just don't worry about what happened yesterday , and that's something I really work on with my clients like , yeah , not not the best choice , but you know there's nothing you can do about it now . So let's learn from it and move forward and develop a plan for moving forward . If it's a distraction especially when they quit drinking , because a lot of times they don't want to take it out of their house , but because they're like , well , what if I want to have it later , or my husband wants it later I'm like that's fine , but if you can remove it for a time , then it won't be that crutch like you were saying , just to reach for it . It makes it a lot harder if you actually have to go to the store to get it or you know . So just make it a little harder on yourself . Sometimes I'll do that with apps , like I'll take it off my phone , or I'll have it on my phone but I'll hide it , so it's not like on my screen when I first open up my phone , so then it just takes more time to get to it . So , yeah , little tricks like that and I love that you said one thing at a time , like you don't have to just do it all at once , because that's overwhelming and then you feel deprived . And then one other thing I would say to that is , when you do that , really pay attention to what you're gaining from not having it there , because you know you'll see people that do like I don't know , dry January or they decided they're not gonna drink for lint and they'll be like in the corner at a party and they'll look all mad and like sad and then and then and it's like okay , all they're thinking about is what they gave up . That's all they're thinking about . They're not thinking about the fact that they're not gonna be hung over the next morning , that they're not gonna over drink and be silly , but they're not . You know . They're not thinking about all the stuff they're gaining , they're just mad .

Speaker 1 34:48

And I was there so I know exactly what that is , because I would do that to my friends . I would go to the bar and not drink and just glare at everyone . Oh no , and it was not enjoyable . But now I go and to things and I'm so like fine about it . Yeah , even in early recovery I was fine about it because I realized I am not having to deal with all the stuff that I had to deal with before from a night of drinking . So just keep track of it , whether you write it down or just mentally think about recognizing oh , I played a game with my kids , we played two games , or I read a book or whatever it is , we went on a walk , just things that maybe you wouldn't normally do because of the distraction , and then that'll help not feel that deprivation . That is natural . We're human . We're gonna feel that .

Speaker 2 35:49

I love that part of the act of contrition to avoid what leads me to sin , and so that's probably my favorite part . And I think good advice for people who are in that mad and sad stage is to don't go to things that are bothersome . Your soul is so precious and it's so attacked from every which direction . If your spiritual growth is in a place where you know that being in a certain environment is going to challenge that in a way that you may not have the strength for , just don't go there . Don't go there . Or same with the bar if that is upsetting to you .

Speaker 2 36:31

Like right now , I don't wanna go to a bar because I like to go to bed at 7.30 . Right , that's not , but for a period , yeah , I had the sober experience where I could be there and when we go to events , I actually really like for other people around me to be able to drink because they loosen up and they relax . And I mean , I don't like that for them if I have a sense that they have an addiction and that it's feeding their problem . But for people who are quote , you know normies , who can go out and have a drink or two , and it helps them relax and enjoy the evening . I enjoy that for them and it helps me relax , and I'm around people that I know are relaxed .

Speaker 2 37:14

But you have to read the room , know the environment , know the state of your soul , even know the time of your cycle . It's different for me . I will want to go out and interact at different times of the month , and that's theology of the body too , you know , and I try to teach , like my boys , my poor boys , or I should say they're lucky wives to be they are learning things about the female cycle and the anatomy and like how it's not just the body , the soul , the person goes through these changes and what the purpose is . That's just such an amazing part of what we teach is like the purpose and the design of the whole anatomy and the egg and what happens at the start of a life , when you see it . Coming back to what we talked about earlier in the themes of gift and love , it's no longer a political debate about . You know the state of legislation around life issues .

Speaker 1 38:14

When you say if they know theology of the body , the teaching of theology of the body and everything that that encompasses , I mean it leaves zero room for debate on any of the other stuff , because it's science , it's our nature and then also , like you said , our souls , that are so unique and beautiful and unrepeatable . So how do you approach teaching the parents about the person and then how do they in turn convey that to their children ?

Speaker 2 38:51

Yeah , so our organization we have used the term school really loosely , more metaphorically , just to represent a group of us parents who want to help provide education to other parents , but we are essentially headquartered mostly in the same place , and then we have other national support and we have come together to create materials that we can sell online to parents anywhere , and we don't have really direct interaction with the parents unless they reach out to us with questions or anything . Instead , what they would do is order the materials that we've created because they've been created and curated so carefully with the parent in mind , and then they are available in all the different age groups . So let's say a parent , it has a 12 year old and a five year old , and they're like I've got to start teaching this stuff to my kids . All they have to do is get a set of TOB monthly middles , which would be cover the age group , the middle school age group , the 12 year old and then TOB monthly kids technically starts at about age five , and then they just open that up with their kids and it's really it's like a mini magazine , so it's technically eight pages with a front and back cover , so it's each issue is six pages of content . So you can take one issue a week , or one issue a month if you want to do more of a deep dive and review concepts a couple of times , and there's these eight issues that come . So the eight issues reflect those 12 standards that I told you about earlier .

Speaker 2 40:36

We just happened to group a couple of them

Theology of the Body Curriculum Discussion

Speaker 2 40:37

together , but they're very directly related to these very well approved Christian anthropology standards that are based on the theology of the body , and each set of standards is a theme and each theme has a little magazine . And I mean six pages is not ? It's not much . It's like a scholastic style leaflet . It's a really very , very simple .

Speaker 2 41:03

So a parent does not need to be overwhelmed and they can , and I would suggest that they preview them before they dive into it with their kids . But they can just also open it up and just start going , just start going through it page by page with the child . And then the other thing to know about it is that the all of the themes are lined up with each other amongst the different age groups . So like , let's say , you want to get the set of eight but you want to go straight to issue number three , which deals with gender , because your child has a classmate that is bringing home questions about gender ideology . So you might choose to get the sets for all of the different ages that your children are and open up to issue three . And if you open up to issue three in kids and middles and teens , it's all gonna be the same content about gender .

Speaker 2 41:58

It's just different . It's age appropriate , so you might choose to have your five year old step away from the table for some of it .

Speaker 1 42:05

Mm-hmm . Oh , that's good to know , cause I was wondering about that because I have teenagers and who I would like to . I mean , we've talked about this . Obviously they're 16 , so they have a pretty good understanding , but I don't know that we've really talked theology of the body , and so I was wondering if they would have to have the middle and the high school ones . But it sounds like it's just the same material , just for their age group , so like we have a 10 year old and then the 16 year old , so they would have the two different Versions , right ? What are the age groupings actually ? I should ask you that .

Speaker 2 42:46

Exactly what you said . Yeah , and then . So the age groupings it's littles is from ages two to five , and then kids six to nine , middles is ten to thirteen , teens is fourteen to eighteen and campus is nineteen to twenty-two . And the way that you just suggested it is exactly how I would do it . You can also , it's you know some people who are brand new to it , or maybe they're a native Spanish speaker . We do have Spanish translations coming , but they're not available yet . They might choose to get a younger version and just start more simply . So you can always start younger and then build up If you , you know , for a family that maybe is brand new to these concepts and they don't want to dive right into the high school . The high school stuff is pretty mature , right , and it'll cover the topic and the concepts . But if you want to break down to just what the concept is , if you get littles , it's right there , pictures and you know ten words on the page . It's very easy .

Speaker 1 43:49

Now , do you just , do you do anything like for schools or faith formation , like things , or is it just for parents ?

Speaker 2 43:56

So our materials are available to schools , parishes , faith formation groups , homeschool groups . We have a bulk rate Right now . People just have to email to get that process going soon . All of that information will be on our website and a number of different people across the country have ordered for their schools and or parishes , and I'm not certain how they're all choosing to use it and implement it . My suggestion is always that they open it up and they introduce it in the school or the parish and then they send it home with the parent and then they , if they care enough , they can ask for some kind of reinforcement that they've done it at home .

Speaker 2 44:41

There is a certain point where we have to say we've done what we can and it's in the hands of the people that we're giving it to . But I do think that a lot of things get passed home to parents and get thrown out because it is so overwhelming the paper trail that comes home as a parent . So I don't think it's a bad idea for a school or a parish to say this is really important . This is different than some of the other things that may come home to you . We would like you to sign that you've done it .

Speaker 1 45:09

That's good to know , because I think it would be so nice , because it's theology of the body , which is just so beautiful . It's so beautiful when you know it , and I don't even know it as much as I wish that I did . And so I am going to get some of those magazines because I think it will be really really good , especially for the ages that our kids are at . And I love that you even have that added age group of the college kids , because college young adults , because they really still need that too . They need it , yes , yeah , and sometimes they get forgotten , especially when you look around parishes . There's just not a lot of things at least around here there's not a lot of things for that age group . So to have something , a resource like this that's geared towards them , I think is really really good .

Speaker 2 46:05

Yeah , and the hope there is that anybody who works in a campus ministry or knows someone who does that's listening . I think any campus minister would be thrilled to know about this resource and just buy it and have it in their lobby , in their lounge . And that's affordable because as kids come in through the lounge area or a Newman Center they can reread the same set . You don't have to pay thousands . I just would love for every campus ministry and every Newman Center to order at least a few sets .

Speaker 1 46:40

Yeah , yeah , that's a great idea . And , yeah , just leave them around , because they'll get curious and they'll pick them up and read them , because there's so much of the other stuff everywhere in their face . They're on Instagram , youtube , anywhere . I mean , it's just like bombarding with all these messages . So the more that we can put solid resources like this in front of them , all the better . And the fact that it's like a magazine , it's actually like a tangible thing . I'll link , because I said my kids links and I don't ever know if they look at them . True .

Speaker 2 47:21

Well , we are working on getting a digital version . This has an option too , because I feel like everybody out there is split half and half .

Speaker 1 47:30

They prefer digital and yeah , yeah , I'm old school , so I'm like I love the paper and especially as a parent like going through it with your kid . It's with your children . It's really nice to have that .

Speaker 2 47:44

I absolutely hands down , recommend the paper version of this . The digital is just because for people , where it just really works better for them , but up until well , actually even up through the campus , there is room for them to kind of respond and journal and write some things . And that's really a big component of the kids the kids especially , and then Middles and teens a little bit where they can interact with the material and they're prompted to draw or color or write something to interact .

Speaker 1 48:19

So then do you need a set , do you think , for each child ?

Speaker 2 48:24

I typically would recommend a set for each child . It can become cost prohibitive , Prohibitive . Every family just has to do what they have to do . And if you can afford to get a kid their own set and you really think you're going to use it , I think that it's entirely worth the investment . I liken it a lot to what we are willing to spend on sports for kids , what we are willing to spend on birthday parties for kids and what we are willing to spend on pets .

Speaker 2 48:54

Right , yes , if you were to look at any of those three categories and actually look at your numbers , then , even though it's $28 a set for your kids and you have five kids and that sounds crazy , the other things that I just mentioned are crazier . This is the state of their soul and if you can make room in your budget , look at it as an investment for sure .

Speaker 1 49:20

Well , and by investing in it , not only are you investing in your family and your children , which is first and foremost so important , but it's also investing in your mission and just being part of helping you get this in the hands of more people and continue it and grow it so that more parents and educators can have access to it .

Speaker 2 49:44

Yes .

Speaker 1 49:45

Yeah , amen .

Speaker 2 49:46

Yes , we're still in the baby stages of marketing . We've been so focused on content creation because we got our cycle A done and out and we earned the imprimatur from Archbishop's sample on it . So it is solid and it's out there and we're working on B because we really really want cycle B done , before I dive into all the other things like marketing , fundraising , swag stickers , all the fun stuff , yeah .

Speaker 1 50:17

That's good . You've got to lay the foundation and then you can start building it with all the other stuff . So I mean , and just being on podcasts and getting the word out , I heard you on local radio here and so that was great , and so I know that that probably reached had to have reached a lot of parents who needed to hear that as well . So thank you for just being willing to share everything . Share all your information , your education , your insights and everything that you've shared here today , and just your willingness to be so open about your alcohol use and your recovery . And congratulations on 12 years also . Thanks . So now go ahead . I'll just go ahead and give you the floor one more time , if there is , if you want to let people know where they can find you , how they can sign up for or get these magazines , and if anything else that you want to promote , you have the floor .

Speaker 2 51:21

Okay , thanks . Our website is tobparentschoolorg and you can do everything there you can order the magazines , you can inquire about book orders and you can make donations . We are a 501c3 , so we're registered , nonprofit tax deductible and we're entirely volunteer led and really , like I said , needing to grow , and so , as I look to marketing and fundraising , it's exciting , but there's no budget for that yet . So any help , obviously , is much appreciated . And then I'd say the only other thing that I would mention is that one of the things that we support is people who want to build a community of like-minded parents around them , to study this kind of stuff , maybe some adult theology of the body books and help equip them and feel strengthened in their ability to talk to their kids .

Speaker 2 52:18

We help people set up local communities . So you know , I think you can see on our website all the locations , and they're across the country . There's about eight of them right now . So , coast to coast Atlanta , boston , new York , california and Portland , so just wherever the spirit is leading . If you're hearing this and you're like , oh , I want to do that , you just reach out to us . And it's always a beautiful thing because it pulls new people into this story and it's great .

Speaker 1 52:49

Yeah , and it's so nice to have support and , like you said , other like-minded individuals and parents working together to do that . So that is amazing . I didn't even know you did that . So that's just another huge blessing that is going to help connect other Catholic parents and just get them to be able to help their kids and the world right , because that's what it's going to eventually do . So , yeah , well , thank you so much again , lindsay , for being here .

Speaker 2 53:24

Thank you

Catholic Sobriety Podcast Wrap-Up

Speaker 2 53:24

so much . Thanks for having me .

Speaker 1 53:26

Well , that does it for this episode of the Catholic sobriety podcast . I hope you enjoyed this episode and I would invite you to share it with a friend who might also get value from it as well , and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing . I am the Catholic sobriety coach , and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer , visit my website , thecatholicsobrietycoachcom . Follow me on Instagram at theCatholic sobriety coach . I look forward to speaking to you next time and remember I am here for you , I am praying for you . You are not alone .