Alcohol Misuse and Mental Health

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Catholic Subriety Podcast , the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives , women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason . I am your host , christy Walker . I'm a wife , mom and a Joyfield Catholic , and I am the Catholic Subriety Coach , and I am so glad you're here . All right , welcome Today . I have Catherine DiNuzzo on the podcast today to discuss how alcohol misuse affects our mental health and how our mental health struggles can lead to alcohol misuse . Catherine is a licensed professional counselor in private practice who operates Sacred Heart Mental Wellness , a website with mental health information . Resources . Assessments and videos can be found there .

Speaker 1 1:00

Catherine earned her master's degree in counseling and human services from the University of Colorado in Colorado Springs . She specializes in helping clients overcome anxiety and depression , as well as other concerns . She travels . She speaks internationally on topics of mental wellness , as well as having done work for focus , ewtn , ewtn Vatican , the Military Council of Catholic Women and numerous Catholic radio stations around the globe , and more so . You may have heard Catherine speak before . Catherine is available to speak at your parish campus , school conference , retreat or group . She and her husband , dave , live in Kansas with their four amazing children .

Speaker 2 1:48

Welcome , oh thank you so much for having me . I always enjoy any opportunity to get to talk about mental wellness and offer support for people and give lots of good information . So thanks for welcoming me on your podcast and introducing me to your listeners .

Speaker 1 2:04

Of course , I know that you're going to just share so much wisdom and insights with my listeners , and I just can't wait to get started . So why don't we start off with you sharing a bit about your story and what led you to the work that you do ?

Speaker 2 2:21

Oh , that is like the best question to ask a counselor , but I don't use up all the time . I really think you know I've been a counselor for a lot of years and always knew that I wanted to be a counselor , I feel like from a very young age I called myself a firefighter of emotions , you know . You know you're a firefighter when you want to run into the fire that everyone else is running away from . And even as a young child I wanted to . I was always interested in the emotions and being there for people .

Speaker 2 2:52

And then I , as I grew up , I grew up with a father who was an alcoholic , and I think that makes my heart feel even more close to your listeners today and to those who are fighting for sobriety . And I spent a lot of my life being the daughter of an alcoholic and seeing myself through that lens . And as I worked through my own mental health struggles and realized that I was Catherine who was the daughter of an alcoholic , a lot of my choices and visions of the world changed and it just has really inspired me to help others to walk that journey and to see the beautiful love that God has for them and how struggles with alcohol and addiction can absolutely impact our lives , but they don't have to define us and we don't have to stay there .

Speaker 1 3:43

Oh , I love that so much and I always say like sometimes our trauma kind of transforms us , it can transform us and it propels us to do , you know , god's work and equips us , and I think that your story is a perfect example of that . So thank you for the work that you do . So as a licensed counselor , how often do you find that alcohol misuse is a symptom of a deeper emotional or psychological issue ? I always say that alcohol isn't always , isn't necessarily the problem , but it's kind of a symptom of something bigger or deeper .

Speaker 2 4:25

Yeah , and I would actually say majority of the time .

Speaker 2 4:29

If you're going to use the word misuse , alcohol can be used and not misused , and it can have a very healthy place in your life .

Speaker 2 4:38

It's not a bad thing in and of itself , but misuse almost always in my experience , is trying to numb or be a coping strategy for things that I'm trying to deal with .

Speaker 2 4:52

So we talk a lot about how people have holes in their lives and they're just things that they don't like . It's something I wish they could go away , and it can be something as traditional , you know , something like parents that weren't the best , or abuse or trauma or those type of things can be our holes , but actually a lot of times it can be just personality things like half my caseload are introverts who think they should be extroverts , or I have like for myself , like I come from a Hispanic background and we are not known for our height and I live in a world where I would love to just be a little bit taller . It is just really hard and I just think we have lots of different things in our lives that we don't always like and we fill it with sand . We fill those holes with things , and an alcohol is a sand that for a minute makes you feel a lot better , but it's not a foundation to build a house on .

Speaker 1 5:50

Yeah , so kid you . I love that , I love that concept . So can you elaborate on your concept of using alcohol and other coping strategies to you know as sand to fill the emotional voids or holes in our hearts ?

Speaker 2 6:09

Yeah , and so the idea is that everybody has holes , but they also want them to go away , right ? So if there was a magic way to make all your holes go away , I would sell it and give Mr Amazon a run for his money , because I would be so rich . But unfortunately those holes don't go away very easy . So instead we fill it up with sand . And the idea of filling the hole up with sand is for a second . It actually feels good , right , like why do we go to alcohol ? Because there's a moment in that where alcohol helps and my whole does kind of go away and I feel better . And then I start to build my life , and my life is my house . I try to build a house on this whole fill with sand .

Speaker 2 6:54

And what happens when we have a whole full of sand that we build a house on ? It's going to fall . It's going to fall , right . So what do we do ? We're like oh no , my house fell . I know what . I need more sand , obviously , right . So I'm going to put more of that in there . I'm going to drink more often , I'm going to go to those unhealthy coping strategies more often and I'm going to shove that sand in much tighter , and then I'm going to build my house again , except it falls again , and a lot of times what we see , especially in the counseling office , is that by the time someone has come to see me , they're sitting on the edge of their hole , they're crying , they're exhausted from building a house that keeps falling and they're like something has to change . I can't keep putting more sand in this hole and building my house because it's not working , and so I think that's that cycle that we find ourselves in is like for a little bit . It kind of works until it doesn't work .

Speaker 1 7:55

Yeah , exactly , and I love that that visual . It's so powerful , like the whole time you are talking . I could just like visualize that , like packing in the sand and then sitting at the hole and it's like where are you at in that spectrum , right when you're as the alcohol misuse starts to grow or you come to a realization , at whatever point ? That is like this isn't working for me , this is becoming a problem for me , and am I using it for something that it will never accomplish ? It will never fill that hole . From your personal perspective , how does inner healing relate to overcoming alcohol misuse ?

Speaker 2 8:45

Yeah , so in my counseling office , I do three main stages , so the first thing we have to do is we have to get the sand out and acknowledge our hole , and that's inner healing , like . We have to see it and we have to acknowledge it . And for me , you know , being the daughter of an alcoholic , I had to look and see that my own alcohol use was me masking some of the wounds from my father's alcoholism , and I had to see that some of the not best relationships and the boys I was bringing into my life were me masking those wounds that I was trying to heal from my father's drinking , and so sometimes and this is the part that is really hard and most people want to avoid but we actually have to look and we have to see the hole , and once we do that , though , then we can start building a basement , and this is where we put it down cement , and , two by fours , and we create structure in that hole . We gain understanding , we gain tools , we have structure to that basement .

Speaker 2 9:56

That now allows me to build my house on a strong foundation , and I always have used the basement analogy as internal healing , because I don't have to ever go into my basement , right , I can have the structure and that hole can be there , but I don't ever have to go into it . So that's that idea

Alcohol's Interference With Inner Healing

Speaker 2 10:19

. I find Catherine who's dead is an alcoholic . Like those wounds , those parts of our holes . As much as we want them to go away , we also don't , because they're part of my story . I want you to take my story away , but I also don't want to keep myself in a cycle of sand . So when we are , when we give ourselves permission to do the time and the effort to really build that basement , we then finally can start building that house we've been dreaming of , with a foundation that actually holds up the house .

Speaker 1 10:55

That's so good and then , on that note , so as someone is building that basement , that firm foundation and I really like that you pointed out that you know there's a lot of things in my past that I wish didn't happen , but also they've made me who I am and formed me and all of that . But I don't have to stay there . So I really like that you mentioned that . But as someone is building that foundation , as they are building that basement , then how can using alcohol to cope just kind of maybe interfere with that building of the inner healing ?

Speaker 2 12:45

Well , and I think there's kind of two main ones that I would talk about . I mean , I think there's lots of different ways , but one is I would talk about biology . So I am a huge believer , I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist , I believe God made us and a beautiful , amazing body and we have to work with it , not against it , right ? So I have a book called the Catholic Guide to Anxiety and through that we talk about the biology of what's happening . So when we talk about alcohol use we have to talk about what does it do ?

Speaker 2 13:15

It numbs our limbic system , that part of our fight or flight , that part . It numbs our frontal cortex , where our decision making happens . So it's really hard if I'm numbing all my thinking parts and my feeling parts to work through and create a basement , so it really is counterintuitive to the work that we're doing . So that's one way that I think it just makes it hard to actually do the work if we're numbing the parts of the brain that need to do that work . And then the second thing is again , if I miss using alcohol , then I'm distracting myself , right ? It's hard to really see the whole If I'm doing things that help me to ignore the whole or the parts that I don't want to kind of deal with . And so I think that if we're actually doing the work , alcohol can be very distracting to the work we're trying to create biologically and emotionally .

Speaker 1 14:15

Yeah , that makes so much sense because if we can't look at things , or I mean , if you think about it , if you're building something and then you're drinking or you're , you know , incoherent , you're not going to get a lot of work done like in general , in just like the physical realm you wouldn't be able to . And so the same is true because we , we just kind of darken everything , right . So when we drink , it numbs out the bad , but it also numbs out the good . It numbs out like having to think about certain things and feel certain emotions , but at the same time the things that we do need to think about and feel to get things done are being numbed out too . So alcohol , it's not like , oh , I'm only going to numb this part of it or I'm only going to help you cope with this part of it , like it really takes away from both our sorrows and our joy at the same time .

Speaker 2 15:12

And I also think it creates when I've worked with people with addictions of all different types is there's a shame that comes with it . Like I know that I'm numbing myself , I know that I'm not building my basement , and so then in that I kind of am making my whole bigger . So not only am I dealing with the whole of itself , but I'm dealing , I'm making the whole bigger as I go . And so I really think that when we do that , we're just kind of creating a cycle that's bigger and bigger and not actually creating that foundation or trying to yeah , absolutely .

Speaker 1 15:49

So what are some first steps that you would recommend to someone who does recognize that they are using alcohol to cope with emotional pain or trauma and they're just not progressing through the inner healing that they need to seek out healthier choices to , you know , just get through those things of life that are difficult .

Speaker 2 16:19

Yeah , and I'm going to go into a brief explanation of this , but I do want to say , if this rings to anyone , in my book there's a whole section that goes into this much deeper . And so , because I think the first thing , so we have specific steps , and one of the first steps is the step that everybody forgets , okay , and I want you to imagine walking downstairs , right , so physically , imagine yourself walking downstairs in the United States . Every stair is perfectly like , ratioed , so that your brain knows how to walk down these steps . Well , emotions are kind of the same way , and when we try to jump or skip a step , what happens ? We fall at the bottom of the stairs , right , we get ourselves back into order .

Speaker 2 17:08

And so , like , these steps to hitting each and every one is really important , and that first step is to know that you are good and that God created you good and that these struggles do not define you as bad the struggles you had in the past , the choices you've made , and they don't make you bad , that you are loved and you are good and you are probably hurting , and those things are like . That first step is being able to like , sit in that and be like I am good and these things don't define me . Then you can go to that second step and be like , okay , what are those hurts ? Like , how do I understand them ? Why am I going to alcohol ? What is ? I can start understanding that . I can come up with a plan on how do I . Okay , I know these are my wounds . I need to , like , figure out the plans for my basement and then you start to make that basement .

Speaker 2 18:06

But this trick that I think , or the step that I feel like almost 90% of my clients want to skip , is that first of like , I am good , I am loved , these feelings are real and that foundation to go to that next step , to be like , okay , now , what am I going to do about ? Because when we stay in that cycle of like blaming ourselves and being mad at ourselves , it only disheartens us , it only makes me want to go to that alcohol more , it only wants me to cope more , and so if we don't take that first step , really it's hard to do any of the other steps .

Speaker 1 18:45

Yeah , that's so true . It just kind of keeps us in like that like almost a cyclone or a cycle of just shame and like not what St Paul says I do the thing I don't want to do , or you know , and I think a lot of us can relate to that . It's like we know we don't want to do it , we like think about it and we're like I'm not doing this , it's bad for me , but then to feel better and get like a dopamine hit or whatever it is somebody seeking , we go right back to it out of shame and to feel better .

Speaker 2 19:23

So so and I have a go ahead . Oh , I was gonna say that one of the things I sell on my website is something I wish that everybody would have , and it's this little sticker

Overcoming Alcohol Misuse With Faith

Speaker 2 19:34

and it's very powerful . And the sticker in big writing , says don't be a bully . And that's because everyone agrees on that , not , you know , worldwide acceptance , you shouldn't be a bully . But then in smaller writing , when you look a little smaller down , it says to yourself Right , because what happens is that internal bullying , that bullying that we would never say to anyone else , is what keeps us in that cycle . So we have to stop that bullying and give ourselves the kindness and the compassion we would give our neighbor to help us start to go down those steps .

Speaker 1 20:14

Right , yeah , and , like you were mentioning earlier , knowing that we are loved , knowing that , you know , God created us , created us good and we are good no matter what we've done , you know that just that goes perfectly with that sentiment and that sticker . So I think that that's so important for all of us to remember , because I know a lot of the women that come to me for coaching . They just have that inner tape inside their heads Like I'm never going to figure it out , I'm like not good at this , I'll never stop drinking or drinking away that I want to , so why even bother ? And and I'm a failure , you know they have like all these things and that is exactly what they're doing is just bullying themselves with those thoughts that just aren't true and aren't serving them . So can you talk a little bit ? You have talked a little bit about it , but can you expand on how faith can play a big role in the healing process and overcoming alcohol misuse ?

Speaker 2 21:19

So , again , the first one , I think , is most importantly , is to know that you are good and God loves you and that none of those things define you . That's always that first step and worth saying 500 times . That's the hardest one to believe . But I also think that there's some , there's some elements where we have just prayer and rosary and those type of those gifts that the Catholic Church has given us to tell us that we are not alone . So , right now , big things are meditation and grounding . Right , and I always think the Catholic Church had it way earlier with the rosary , right . Right , it's meditative , it's repetitive , it's calming , right , you can put it on .

Speaker 2 22:06

I always have my clients put it on an audio rosary because you know we'll stretch that . I do nine , did I do 11 ? Hail Mary's . I don't know the prayers to meditate . Right , you can just put it on an audio rosary and you just have Mary there rocking you , telling you it's going to be OK . Right , we have a Sacred Heart . Mental Wellness , the Sacred Heart of Jesus is very important to me , and just the fact that we can go to Jesus and he can be there to be our support , that we don't have to go through this alone , and that's the one thing with addiction and alcohol misuses that we feel so alone , like nobody can know . No one can understand what I'm going through , and I just always tell my clients that Jesus is standing there right there , next from going .

Speaker 1 22:49

I'm here .

Speaker 2 22:51

I'm here , you know I'm here . I can help . I'm here to help if you want .

Speaker 2 22:56

But we don't like , allow that to look up . And then the other big thing that our church gives us and it's that I just don't think we use enough which is the community of Saints . I think we always focus on the holiness of Saints and I always challenge my clients to see the humanity of slaves and how they had both . I sometimes tease that I'm not a very good Catholic because Jesus's mom is not my favorite Mary in the Bible , but my devotion is to Mary Magdalene , and Mary Magdalene and I give this to your listeners because I think she's just such a powerful Saint to join in us with addiction and just any type of those past wounds and those sands and the holes is that you know , everyone knows she had a hard life and when Jesus was dying on the cross redeeming the world , you know he could have had anyone there , thank you , and he was God . He could have picked anyone .

Speaker 2 23:59

And there was Mary Magdalene at the foot of the cross and she to me is that reminder anytime I wanna bully myself , anytime I feel like I'm lost and alone and like how could he love me ? Does he not know what I've done ? I imagine Mary Magdalene at the foot of the cross and him just being like I told you I forgave that a long time ago . But that's you , I love you , I'm just glad you're here . And so not only do we have prayers and mass and grace , but we have these saints that the church has given us to look and say , hey , we get that . Being a human and this world is hard . Let me help you and let me show you my love through the lives of these amazing people who came before you .

Speaker 1 24:50

Yeah , that is so true . We , just as Catholics , we just have this treasure trove of resources and examples to draw from and follow . And the rosary yes , I listened to it as well , so can you share ? Maybe you talked about some things that we can do with our faith . Are there any other coping strategies or healthier alternatives that my listeners might be able to implement to help them kind of route out that alcohol misuse and turn to something that's going to be more healthy and constructive and helping lead them on the path to healing those wounds so that they can cope well ?

Speaker 2 25:36

Yeah , and I think that there's lots of different resources out there , different strategies and tools . The one thing I would challenge before I kind of give any of these is that I like to think of the tools like construction workers tool belt is that very few tools are like the one fits everything , like , oh , this is the perfect one for you and really it's . What am I struggling with ? What am I needing at that time ? Like to see tools as like a whole , like I can go through my what do I need off my belt today ? And so I can give some basic ideas , but there's many more in the book and lots of difference on the website . The first one , I think , is not being afraid of exercise and your readers can't see , but I'm not someone who's out running marathons but a lot of times when we're starting to feel those deeper , darker feelings , our body is in fight or flight and that is producing stress hormones that we need to do something with . But instead we just decide to like sit and think about them and like our muscles are like I need to do something and we're like , think about it and they're like you know . So , even just taking a walk around your house , you know , just giving up and sitting down just a couple of times , I think , is a really good strategy .

Speaker 2 27:00

I'm a real big believer in journaling . I think that when we have thoughts in our heads , they're all true . Every bad thing I've ever thought about myself , all the things , all that bullying , is just really true in my head . There's no accountability up there , and so to be able to write them down and really I'm a big believer in safely burning them , I think throwing them away isn't as concrete as they're being gone , like I don't actually have to work through them , I don't actually have to like by each thought process I can just be like you're out of my brain today and I'm gonna give myself some space .

Speaker 2 27:38

I'm a big believer in finding a net of friends that can support you , and this is always a hard one . And in the book I actually teach you how to do this , because most people will say I've talked to someone . They don't help . I've talked to this person they don't help , I've tried that . They don't get it . And so actually learning like what ways can people love me the best so that I can ask them for that right ?

Speaker 2 28:03

Often we just think , oh , I could talk to anyone about anything and they should be able to help . But really , sometimes you got a good friend who's good at laughing , and you got a friend who's good at going to a fun restaurant , and you have one who's a good listener , and you have one who's a good fixer . And so sometimes we have to look at our hearts and see , like , what am I needing in this moment to , like , help me through this process ? And I can be like , hey , I had a hard week . Can we just go watch a funny movie ? And you have that friend who's like I got 12 of them . Which funny movie do you want ? And so finding that intentional net of support I think is always a really good idea .

Speaker 2 28:41

And I think counseling especially if we are struggling with addiction , with coaching , having someone who can support you and help you walk through and talk through some of those , those holes and those wounds , that you just don't have to do it alone , I think is a really key . I really hope we're changing the narrative on mental health and coaching that when you go to the gym and you say , hey , I'm gonna start working out , no one is like what's wrong with you ? Wow , it's your problem , right ? They're like that's awesome , good job and I really have it just on my heart . To change . The narrative of mental health is the same way that , like when you say , hey , I'm like getting some help here and there's someone helping me , think through these things that we just support that and realize that it is good and it is a gift that God has given us who are in this helping industry to be able to help in this way , and it's heavy on our hearts to be there for them and not to be afraid to make the call sign up .

Speaker 1 29:43

Yes , yes , I always when you were saying that I was thinking like coaching and counseling are kind of like the gym too right , cause you're building those muscles , those habit muscles , those thought muscles and all of that . So it really is , if you think about it as just like training and building those habits , just like you build your physical body , you're building your mental health , your emotional health , spiritual health . All of that is so important . And I loved when you said , when you were talking about finding a net of people and finding the people who , like how are they going to love you best ? And knowing that not everyone will provide you with the same thing .

Speaker 1 30:34

I think in recovery we're constantly told like reach out for help , reach out for help , but some people are just gonna , they're just gonna pacify you because they want you to be happy and then and be like well , if you wanna do that , that's fine . But if you really want those people that are going to speak truth or kind of ask you really good questions to help you not just sit where you are but actually move forward , then it's really good to kind of discern that and think about those people and maybe even write it out . You know , like this person , like you were saying , this person is always good for a dinner out and this person loves movies . I'm gonna call her or you know . Whatever it is . It's support is so important and reaching out is so important .

Speaker 2 31:28

Absolutely . And I think sometimes when I first give the analogy of the net , people will think , oh , that's , I feel kind of like I'm using them , like isn't that kind of like rude to be like oh what ? Like how could you love me best ? But what we don't realize and I think , especially when we're struggling with being stuck in our whole full of sand is that our net actually wants to help and it is a win-win . When I love watching movies and you wanna go watch a movie and we like get the both . Like it works for both of us Right .

Speaker 2 32:03

Like I know for me , I've really worked on my relationship with my dad and one thing that he is really good at is he will take me to eat any food that I want , no matter how expensive or random it is . Like I like to go to the Indian restaurant , or that I wanna go to Thai food , or , and so if I just want to escape into a unique ethnic meal , I'll be like dad , would you like to go where ? My husband would be like I don't eat Indian food , you know . So it's a win-win , cause my dad's excited to experience that with me as much as I am excited to experience that with him , and so enabling him to love me in the way I need actually is life giving to him also , so it's a win-win for both of us .

Speaker 1 32:45

Yes , yeah , that's so important to point out , because when we allow others to bless us , then we bless them in the process , and I think that that's a beautiful reminder . So , before we close , you've mentioned your book , you've mentioned your website . I just wanna give you the floor and so that you can

Catholic Guide to Mental Wellness

Speaker 1 33:03

just talk about all the things , and I will include a link to your website and a link to where people can find your book I'm guessing on Amazon , but if there's somewhere else , then let me know . Yeah , just , I know people are gonna you have such great energy , you're so fun , and I know people are just gonna wanna learn more about you .

Speaker 2 33:22

Oh , thank you so much for this opportunity . So , yes , I run Sacred Heart Mental Wellnesscom and on there there are videos and there's gonna be some classes ran and there's also you can get the book there . And again , it's a website that is designed to be proactive about our mental health , just like what you were talking about about building those muscles . I think we live in a world where mental health is seen reactive instead of proactive , and my whole idea is to change mental wealth to a proactive idea , and so that's what's . At Sacred Heart Mental Wellness , there's also a place where you can book me to be a speaker , and so I love when I'm able to come to women's groups or men's groups or even youth groups to share . Like I know , mental health is one of those things that people are like I don't know do I wanna bring the speaker in , but in my experience , no matter where I've gone , people are always like thank you for bringing up this topic , thank you for talking about it , and I try to bring it in a lighthearted way , like my book is very positive and funny , and I remember my husband once said , like why is it important to be funny as a counselor ? Isn't that weird ? And I'm like no living life is hard enough . We need a little bit of humor , we need a slightness , and so I'm always willing to travel and to talk to groups because I just feel like God is calling me to really share this message and , honestly , our world is not getting easier and we need to advocate and help give resources for people's mental health .

Speaker 2 34:58

My book , the Catholic Guide to Anxiety it starts with the biology , and so I really think that there's some science that people don't understand about anxiety and mental health , and a lot of times if you go to alcohol as a coping strategy , there's normally trauma involved in that , and so the book describes like what happens in my brain and in my body when I am feeling anxious . And I really wanted to name the book I'm Crate , you're Not Crazy . Let Me Tell you why . Because I feel like most people who struggle with anxiety think they're crazy , but my editor did not think that was the best title , even though I still disagree . But I think that , like so it goes into how you were wonderfully made by God and when people can understand that these feelings inside of us are not bad , they don't make us bad , they don't make me weak or crazy man . I'm on that first step and I can start actually working through it .

Speaker 2 36:01

So the first half of the book is explaining the biology in a way that you can understand and then the second part of the book are all strategies based on the biology . Because most of the anxiety books out there I feel like they miss that connection . They say here this is what you should do , but no one understands why I should do that . And it doesn't work If I tell you to take deep breaths but I don't tell you why that will help you . It doesn't work as well as if I give you the biology of what happens when you take deep breaths and why it will make you feel better . So it kind of marries those two , also with some prayers to kind of help in different spiritual practices .

Speaker 2 36:40

But also it's only 100 pages so that it's an easier reading I like that Because I just feel like if you're going to learn about anxiety , you don't want a 200 page book . That's so overwhelming . You're like there's pictures and there's diagrams and it's really meant to be a super easy read , but lots of information . And the last thing I would say about the book , and that I would just advocate for the book , is that most people who have read it say one of two things .

Speaker 2 37:12

One is the first time I've ever felt understood , because when you suffer with anxiety or mental health struggles , very often you just don't feel like anybody gets it . And the second thing is for people who love someone who struggles with addiction or anxiety . They will come to me and say I finally know how to talk to my daughter . I know I understand my husband , and so one of the things that I always recommend is very few people are going to come to you who are struggling and say mom , can I get that anxiety book ? Oh honey , wifey , could you get me that book on anxiety ? That will help me a lot . They're just not going to .

Speaker 2 37:54

It's very hard again because of the stigma of mental health . So I actually recommend people just buy it and stick it in their house , and my favorite is hearing stories from moms who are like , yeah , I saw the book on the counter , it was gone . Or wives stick it on their husbands' seats and so it's in their car . And the idea is that we live in a very hard world and there are dark moments in a lot of people's lives and this is a book that's going to be positive and build them up , and so just having a resource available in those darker moments , I feel it's just empowering because it really helps you to see that you are good and you are loved , and these struggles you have don't define you , and so to have it as a resource in your house , I think is just valuable to anybody .

Speaker 1 38:48

Oh , that's so good . I'm going to get the book Okay , because you had me at humor , because you know anything that's going to make reading about these very important issues . But if it can be approached in a way that is easy for , at least for me . I'm not really an academic reader and so it makes it easier if there's some humor , if it's not super long , and I mean just speaking to you , I can just tell it's it'll be . I'll hear your voice now , like when I'm reading it . So well , catherine , thank you so much for being here , thank you for the work you do . You are a light and we are all just so blessed to have you here and you know working , working for the church and working for mental health for all of us .

Speaker 2 39:43

Thank you so much . It's been a wonderful time . Thank you for having me .

Speaker 1 39:47

Well , that does it for this episode of the Catholic sobriety podcast . I hope you enjoyed this episode and I would invite you to share it with a friend , who might also get value from it as well , and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing . I am the Catholic sobriety coach , and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer , visit my website , thecatholicsobrietycoachcom . Follow me on Instagram at the Catholic sobriety coach . I look forward to speaking to you next time , and remember I am here for you , I am praying for you , you are not alone .